Author Topic: What are easier for first timers; Sheep or Cattle  (Read 17904 times)

ZaktheLad

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Thornbury, Nr Bristol
Re: What are easier for first timers; Sheep or Cattle
« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2013, 10:25:40 am »
I also agree with Sally.  I think you really need to appreciate just how much time and effort is involved in looking after livestock before you bite the bullet.  It can be hard work - especially in winter time and at all times of the year, the animals you have will need your care and attention.   It is a 365 day a year lifestyle, not something that can be picked up and put down as holidays and travelling dictates.   Holidays and days out for me come second to my animals and when I do go away, it is only after a lot of planning in to who will look after my them for a week/fortnight.     A busy travelling life does not combine well with keeping livestock and finding reliable care in your absence can not only be difficult, but also very expensive. 

Perhaps thinking more along your DIY livery might be a good option, although beware that horse owners can be a demanding bunch and will expect a good level of service provided such as good stabling with lighting, 24/7 turnout in some cases, excellent fencing, storage for their hay/feed etc and the grassland to be managed correctly and kept free of ragwort etc.  You will also need to have some superb insurance in place. 


Fowgill Farm

  • Joined Feb 2009
Re: What are easier for first timers; Sheep or Cattle
« Reply #31 on: August 20, 2013, 11:33:14 am »
Oly
Thank you for explaining your set up, you certainly have a lot on your plate and i know: been there done that, built a house, lived in a kezza, had no money etc so know where you are and after reading that i don't doubt your committment however i think you would still be biting off more than you could chew, animals are expensive things to keep ( ask my husband :innocent: :eyelashes:  about my bills!) and an unforseen cost don't half throw a spanner in the works.... phone bill or get the vet out or winter school shoes or sheep meds kinda descisons so believe me when i say wait a while until you get on an even keel.
The hardest part of keeping animals is the day to day involvement required and as Zak said holidays become a distant memory if you can't find one to smallhold sit that is reliable, fit and knowledgable.
You asked for our opinions and we gave it to you straight which as a Yorkshire lass i would do to your face anyway ;D , come see me at the Cheshire Show next year :wave:
all the best whatever you decide.
mandy :pig:

Oly

  • Joined Feb 2013
  • South Cheshire
Re: What are easier for first timers; Sheep or Cattle
« Reply #32 on: August 20, 2013, 11:50:03 am »
Thanks for the reply Mandy and the further comments.  Our finance issues should be fine once we're there...it's just we're presently juggling a number of existing properties to at present get to our end goal.  The idea being that once we're there all other properties will have been sold and we should actually be better off before we even open the campsite or holiday let.  Thankfully we have plenty of family and friends locally who should be able to farm sit for us, and hopefully we'll also get a regular group of guests who may (with some teaching!) be willing to sit if we subsidise their holiday (and the phone number of our friend the vet!)!

One half of my family also hails from Yorkshire, with my Grandad farming and being the Ministry Inspector around Settle...so juggling animals and work is perhaps in the blood!

Cheers,
Oly

Possum

  • Joined Feb 2012
  • Somerset
Re: What are easier for first timers; Sheep or Cattle
« Reply #33 on: August 20, 2013, 02:44:38 pm »
It sounds like you may have friends and family nearby who could help if necessary. We started with Wiltshire Horn sheep because they don't need shearing, are a reasonable size and very docile. Ours would fed from the the hand after about a month. Our first ones cost £75 each but we have now found a farmer who sells for £50 each.

AndynJ

  • Joined Sep 2010
  • uk
  • Says it as it is. don't like it don't look
Re: What are easier for first timers; Sheep or Cattle
« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2013, 04:03:52 am »
You should read your own post, when you have stopped laughing.
Full time jobs
Self build + cottage
Campsite
Forget animals take hay off it this year and next get the self build out the way then lose the jobs then the animals.
My friend last week (they both work) one sheep got out they couldn't leave work, took 5 people and a dog to catch it mid afternoon mid week have you got that many friends that can/will help at the drop of a hat.
I did it once but probably not again

Oly

  • Joined Feb 2013
  • South Cheshire
Re: What are easier for first timers; Sheep or Cattle
« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2013, 07:57:17 am »
Animals will only come when everything else is in place. And no, I can't see a problem with our plans. Both of our jobs are flexible with a large amount of working from home...plus it's only 4 sheep or 2 cows. My uncle did it for years with 30+ animals.

PS: why would I be laughing? Yet another cynical post, our plans really don't seem too much to other fellow smallholders round here.  Maybe your jealous, or maybe your limiting my dreams via the imposition of your own failings? Either way please try to be positive in the future or just don't bother posting!
« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 07:59:37 am by Oly »

SteveHants

  • Joined Aug 2011
Re: What are easier for first timers; Sheep or Cattle
« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2013, 08:14:47 am »
and you want sheep that don't need shearing too.


So do most sensible people.  :P


Others are right though - forget holidays. But anyway, an old farmer once said to me that if you needed a holiday, you were in the wrong job.


Wilts Horns shed fully, you could probably have a couple of them on your ground. If you wanted to feed sheep, I would suggest maybe 4-5/ac in summer and half that in winter but you will then have to feed them. If you didn't want to feed them its 3/ac summer and 1.5/ac winter. 


Plenty of people work off the farm to make ends meet, that isn't a problem as I see it, but you will find you takr your 'holidays' at farm-sensetive times like lambing.

shygirl

  • Joined May 2013
Re: What are easier for first timers; Sheep or Cattle
« Reply #37 on: August 22, 2013, 11:35:18 am »
back to the cattle discussion - on the shetland cattle websites SCBA - they state one acre of very good grass per beast during the summer. ie its to be rested all winter.

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: What are easier for first timers; Sheep or Cattle
« Reply #38 on: August 22, 2013, 11:44:31 am »
So presumeably you need another acre to make hay or silage for that same beast through the winter?  Or buy it in.
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

shygirl

  • Joined May 2013
Re: What are easier for first timers; Sheep or Cattle
« Reply #39 on: August 22, 2013, 11:46:01 am »
and then another acre for the companion....

ferretkeeper

  • Joined May 2013
  • Carmarthenshire
    • Brecon View Farm
    • Facebook
Re: What are easier for first timers; Sheep or Cattle
« Reply #40 on: August 22, 2013, 11:59:25 am »
Hi Oly

I like the ideas you have, it's what a lot of us are aspiring to or already do on our own little patches.

It does sound like you've got a lot on your plate and without wanting to sound very negative, I would say to be careful not to add too much more on. I think you need all your energy to go on current projects if for no other reason than that's how you'll pay for the animals you want.

IME Animals have an annoying habit of picking the worst time to break out or look ill or do something you don't want. A lot of things don't get finished or take twice as long because I have to stop and start. And for all the flexibility in the world you can't be in two places at once; as someone running a small farm on my own that is my biggest issue and the most stressful one. If no-one's home when something happens it's a real pain.

I'd agree that you could take some hay from the fields for now, it'll need to be cut anyway to keep it in good nick for future animals. But when things have calmed down a bit for you and you're going to be around a lot with fewer demands then why not get some sheep (or indeed cattle).

I did think you could start with some lambs, pick them up in the spring or early summer, keep them til they're ready to go to slaughter, they'll mow the grass while it's growing so you don't have to, then come winter the land can rest and so can you - you might even get a holiday in! I did like the comment that if you need one you're in the wrong job - ok if you're a full time farmer but modern day smallholders having a day job as well probably do need it!

The lambs won't need to be sheared, you can probably pick them up already vaccinated and even clik'd for the summer, so minimal intervention required from you, no expensive meds and injectors/applicators to buy, minimal feed cost maybe just to finish them, you can just enjoy them!

You don't even need to focus on picking the one right breed if you get different ones every year, it might help you decide what kind you'd like if you ever go on to breed them although with a very small acreage that may not be viable. You'll have meat for the freezer and skins for rugs, could be an income stream for the guests or just a pleasure to have for yourselves.

I recently bought a handful of lambs to add to my little flock who were already treated for everything, I won't need to do anything with them before they go to slaughter - a responsible breeder will advise you. I keep/breed Shetlands but these little guys are a mix of crosses bred for fibre so coloured Ryelands, some Corriedale, bit of Shetland, and they are a gorgeous bunch. I do have a few white ones but more of the coloured ones and it's nice to see a real mixture esp as I do want the fleece for wool.

I don't think you have the space for full grown cattle but similar to lamb, rose veal calves take anywhere between 6-10 months to reach slaughter weight depending on breed. There are threads on here which I have read as I was interested in doing this once we find a bit more land. They will need housing and feeding with concentrates and silage etc so more cost involved than the sheep, so perhaps when the barn is rebuilt it could be a goer if start up costs aren't a big factor then?

Good luck with whatever you decide to go for.

breconviewfarm.co.uk Rare breed, free range.

roddycm

  • Joined Jul 2013
Re: What are easier for first timers; Sheep or Cattle
« Reply #41 on: August 22, 2013, 12:10:36 pm »
My neighbour is the county coroner, so works full time. His wife works from home and they have 20 section B ponies, 40 portland sheep, and about 20 manx sheep plus four milking goats. They both have a holiday in the summer as a friend comes to stay to look after the animals.

I say if you want to do it you can. Just plan it well and you'll not fail. Go for it!

roddycm

  • Joined Jul 2013
Re: What are easier for first timers; Sheep or Cattle
« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2013, 12:13:31 pm »
For that matter I work full time, have 20 ewes and breed lots of duck, geese, guinea and chickens. I also take a summer holiday. I love the animals they are a pleasure and never a chore so I enjoy getting up extra early etc....

ZaktheLad

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Thornbury, Nr Bristol
Re: What are easier for first timers; Sheep or Cattle
« Reply #43 on: August 22, 2013, 12:40:54 pm »
I also work full time, have a small flock of 30 sheep, a horse, chickens and 3 dogs.  I get up at 4am every day of the week.  I take holiday at lambing time but also do manage a week or so away with my OH to visit his family in Madeira. It has taken me quite a while to find a dedicated and reliable house and animal sitter though, but I now have someone who I trust totally to look after everything for me whilst I am away.  I don't look on my animals as a chore either as I love it - I am sat in an office each weekday and so being able to get outside each evening is magic.  It really is a lifestyle though and you do need to be dedicated to do it - animals and land take a lot of looking after.  I am sure that if Oly starts small and doesn't take on anything too ambitious with regards to the animals to start with they will be fine. 

Oly

  • Joined Feb 2013
  • South Cheshire
Re: What are easier for first timers; Sheep or Cattle
« Reply #44 on: August 22, 2013, 01:09:09 pm »
That's brilliant!  Many thanks for the great responses.  We are planning on doing this only one step at a time so as to not overload us and learn as we go.  First the house and holiday let will be complete.  This year and last we had a local friend/farmer take the hay off the field but once the house/holiday let is complete the field will be reseeded (as it's had low spots raised, the ground source heat pump installed and the drainage field too).  The the following season would be the earliest to introduce campers, and then if all is still under control then a couple of animals...so still a way off, but we're keen on getting as much information up front to ensure we can plan and ensure any all elements of the wider project mesh in nicely (e.g. fencing along with the garden).

I like the idea of just getting lambs in to fatten up over the summer, but then when enquiring on here a lot of people say that they can be hard work to keep from dying!  Or am I confusing the actual age of lamb (i.e. cade lambs that require bottle feeding then grass, as opposed to getting lambs slightly older solely on grass?  If this is the case what age lambs would I be looking at?)?

 

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