Author Topic: What are easier for first timers; Sheep or Cattle  (Read 17921 times)

Oly

  • Joined Feb 2013
  • South Cheshire
What are easier for first timers; Sheep or Cattle
« on: August 19, 2013, 12:55:16 pm »
I know I'm probably opening a can of worms here but...what are easiest to keep for first timers, Sheep or Cattle?  I know it's a bit like comparing apples and pears, and breeds will come into it, hence I've outlined our requirements/situation below for breeds of either to be suggested...

We have about two acres of Cheshire with one acre that needs the grass keeping down.  The other acre will be used as a Certificated Caravan Site for the summer, but will be available for over winter grazing.  The main aim is to keep the grass down, keep the land "pretty" for guests, not require too much added intervention in terms of vets etc, not require too much expense in terms of equipment, and can be left "out" all year round.  The ground is pretty free draining (very sandy under the topsoil) so we're hoping poaching of the land should be minimal, but it should be a consideration.  From time to time, or as experience grows, we may venture into breeding/slaughtering periodically - but this would be ancillary to the primary aim so please don't factor this too highly in breed suggestions.

We are in a very dairy based area (South Cheshire - the land of milk and slurry!) and have friends in the business who may be able to help from time to time.  We know a couple of hobby sheepherds, and my brother milks plus has kept pedigree Texiles previously (but were a massive pain!).  However, people get hung up on "their" breed, hence the open question here...what would you go for and why?

I know this post may seem a little like we don't want animals, we do, it's just that we are half way through a self build, which also includes a new holiday cottage to let and the campsite...but we also really do want animals!  At the moment all the new elements seem like a lot of work on top of full time jobs, hence if we can choose an easier breed of sheep/cattle it would help...initially!

Zwartbles and Dexters are presently being considered, but we really are open to suggestions.

Many thanks in anticipation,
Oly
« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 12:58:45 pm by Oly »

devonlad

  • Joined Nov 2012
  • Nr Crediton in Devon
Re: What are easier for first timers; Sheep or Cattle
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2013, 01:08:39 pm »
hi for what its worth i would say without any hesitation sheep are easier. we started with sheep about 5 years ago as total novices and whilst we really would love at least a house cow we dont feel ready, experience wise or time wise. what i would say is don't confuse easier with easy.  not sure anyone should embark on keeping livestock if they're not prepared for it to be time consuming,and  inconvenient. i read and read and read to know more and become better able to loo after them properly. this forum is totally invaluable too good luck

roddycm

  • Joined Jul 2013
Re: What are easier for first timers; Sheep or Cattle
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2013, 01:30:20 pm »
Sheep, no doubt about it! A primitive breed would be very low maintenance and worth thinking about also! Zwartbles are gorgeous, but can get quite large and you need to buy from a good breeder as I have been told some lines have feet and mastitis problems... If you are not going to breed from them and just want a few pets and an attraction for tourists maybe a cpl of llamas would be something to consider!?

If you like the look of zwartbles also look at the balwens, they are smaller, hardier and cheaper!

Bionic

  • Joined Dec 2010
  • Talley, Carmarthenshire
Re: What are easier for first timers; Sheep or Cattle
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2013, 01:33:40 pm »
The main aim is to keep the grass down, keep the land "pretty" for guests,
Does 'pretty' include sheep or cattle poo?
I've never had cattle so can't compare but my Ryelands are fairly easy to keep. Having said that like all animals they need regular treatments/hoof trimming and you always need to keep an eye out for things like fly strike.
I am sure someone with cattle or both will be along shortly to give a better comparisson
Life is like a bowl of cherries, mostly yummy but some dodgy bits

Oly

  • Joined Feb 2013
  • South Cheshire
Re: What are easier for first timers; Sheep or Cattle
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2013, 01:42:28 pm »
Thanks for the replies so far!  And yes, poo is OK in terms of "pretty"!  I'm thinking more about turning the land over (e.g. pigs)...which doesn't bode well for a campsite that may be due to be occupied within a month!!

I must admit that may preference (solely on a "like") basis is cattle...is it wrong to like the sound of a cow tearing up grass?!  Although I do like some sheep breeds too, and the easycare type non-shedding types do sounds interesting.  Are there any others?  Also what sort of numbers should I be thinking given the acreage...and it is rich Cheshire grass?  Also, given the richness of the grazing - is this a consideration/concern regarding traditionally mountain (low quality) grazers?

PS:- Those Balwens do look lovely!!
« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 01:46:02 pm by Oly »

Rosemary

  • Joined Oct 2007
  • Barry, Angus, Scotland
    • The Accidental Smallholder
Re: What are easier for first timers; Sheep or Cattle
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2013, 02:21:35 pm »
You need to allow an acre of grazing per cow (roughly) and you need to keep two cows so they have company. I think that kind of answers your question?

TBH, I think the cattle are easier (we have cattle and sheep) insofar as there's less routine maintenance - feet get done once a year by a contractor, twice a year with a pour on for worms and fluke and a couple of times a year for external parasites. Four yearly TB testing here and annual BVD test. That's as long as things are going well - a sick sheep is easier, by dint of being smaller, to handle but I don't think (hope) cattle get sick all that often.

Cattle don't graze as tidily as sheep either - and putting a foot in sheep poo is less distressing than putting it in a cow pat  :)

Oly

  • Joined Feb 2013
  • South Cheshire
Re: What are easier for first timers; Sheep or Cattle
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2013, 02:30:07 pm »
Thanks Rosemary, is this head/acre true for a small breed like Dexters on good lush ground too?

roddycm

  • Joined Jul 2013
Re: What are easier for first timers; Sheep or Cattle
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2013, 05:03:39 pm »
The other thing about cattle is that in wet winter weather they'll need shelter and their hooves will cut up your paddock. You can keep about 5 sheep on an acre and let them have lambs which then go into your freezer! There are some mini sized sheep like ouessant which you might like, also shetlands come in a variety of colours and patterns. If you don't mind horns castlemilk moorits and manx sheep are lovely in looks and flavour! These are all easy care breeds so mean less work for you and they live out all year round with no issues... They also won't cut up your paddock like cattle. I love dexters, esp the short legged reds! You can milk them too so maybe if you are set on cattle a cow with calf at foot would be a good option if you have the right set up!

Anke

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • St Boswells, Scottish Borders
Re: What are easier for first timers; Sheep or Cattle
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2013, 05:51:05 pm »
Just get a few wethers and/or female sheep that look nice, are a traditional and slow growing breed and taste really good as mutton. They keep the grass down and you can reduce the flock as and when your freezer is empty, always buy a few from a smallholder nearby at weaning and won't need to bother with breeding.
 
But you would probably need to buy in a few bales of hay for winter, and it helps to have a few hurdles to gather them and train them to the bucket.
 
I wouldn't start with cattle...

HappyHippy

  • Guest
Re: What are easier for first timers; Sheep or Cattle
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2013, 06:06:29 pm »
I keep cattle (2 lol!) and pigs, had 'pet' lambs as a kid so don't have much useful experience with them to comment on.
But, in your situation I think you'd be better with sheep, rather than cattle.
The main reason is the amount of ground and the keeping of at least 2 animals for company, the poo comes into the equation too (sheep poo is far less intrusive for campers  ;)) but also, in terms of potential break outs (it will happen at some point) sheep are far less intimidating than a cow outside your tent  ;) and noise levels for your paying guests - after all, they'll be your main source of income so you need to keep them sweet  :thumbsup:
I'd maybe also suggest that it's worth having some form of housing for them and hard standing (if it's sheep it could be paving slabs, doesn't need to be concrete) for the wetter winter months and/or really bad weather.

You could also consider geese (6 per acre is recommended stocking density) as they'll keep the grass down, as would chickens or ducks and you'd have lovely fresh, free range eggs you could sell to campers for brekkie and use it as a gimmick for kiddies - get some nice woven baskets, lined with straw and let them collect their own (under your supervision of course)

Just my tuppenceworth  :innocent:

Oly

  • Joined Feb 2013
  • South Cheshire
Re: What are easier for first timers; Sheep or Cattle
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2013, 06:16:15 pm »
Great suggestions all round!

So, are there any dark/mottled coloured sheep (not too keen on plain white...we all have our preferences i guess!), that can be out all year, are easycare (no shearing, fewer health issues etc) and taste good as mutton?

Re cattle...why wouldn't you start with them? My uncle who had sheep always used to say that they had a death wish and any sherpards job was to stop that...I've never heard the same with cattle.

Ps - a few choks arealso planned!

shygirl

  • Joined May 2013
Re: What are easier for first timers; Sheep or Cattle
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2013, 06:35:53 pm »
why not rent the land to a farmer for a bit?
you cant keep a cow on her own, it wouldnt be fair and they are more than capable of jumping out and finding the nearest herd (speaking from experience  ::)). a cow per acre is the bare minimum and i guess this equation is based on summer grazing which is excellent grass and rotated each year, i dont think it means a one acre field is suitable for a cow on her tod. cows eat alot and also poop alot which reduces clean grazing. keeping one cow per single acre year in year out would require a degree of land maintenance, and would require bring the cow inside for the winter to rest the field. all cows kick so be prepared for that.
i dont think cows or sheep are low maintenance as they require some commitment in terms of educating yourself about them. we have kept cattle for 3 yrs or so and still feel like a novice. i do prefer cattle to sheep though as they are so calming. but they do require more ability in handling. plus they require tb testing etc at only a few days notice.
sheep are maybe easier if you are prepared to bucket train them check them regularly for flystrike etc in the summer. they wont make so much mess with poop but can be infuriating if you cant catch them without a dog  :o
they do sometimes do bad things like jump on your head if penned up  :roflanim:
sheep are much easier to finish and send away, whereas cattle take almost 3 yrs. sheep are easy to sell even if they are poor pedigree as there are many pet homes around, whereas this might not the the same for cattle.
the initial investment is less for sheep.
having the house cow sounds lovely but you do need to get her pregnant, by AI or transporting her somewhere (need trailer and 4x4 - so gets expensive, plus movement docs) , she may need scanning so you might need to invest in a crush etc and then you need to sell the offspring etc or you'l be over-run with cattle.
we kept 5 native sheep on an acre all year round with only a small amount of haylage and hard feed in the winter.
you have to decide if you want neutered pet sheep or young ones for meat. native breeds are much more suitable for novices than the hybrid mules.

its alot easier and cheaper to rent the paddock out.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 08:24:08 pm by shygirl »

jimmy

  • Joined Jul 2013
Re: What are easier for first timers; Sheep or Cattle
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2013, 08:00:01 pm »
I'm also thinking about getting some sheep. What is the usual max number of sheep per acre recommendation? I'm hoping it's quite a bit more than for cattle?

Oly

  • Joined Feb 2013
  • South Cheshire
Re: What are easier for first timers; Sheep or Cattle
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2013, 08:00:20 pm »
Renting out the field isn't an option. We want animals, plus round here it would be horses only really.

Spoke to a guy locally who has dexters and reckoned two dexters on our lush grass should be fine with the acreage, plus outside all year with minimal poaching or extra feed. The extra paper admin should be ok, and could probably get away without a 4x4 or crush with friendly dexters, but there would be a bigger up front cost I guess (2 dexters versus 6 pedigree sheep)?  Any day to day or health reasons why cattle are supposedly harder? 

However, a small flock of sheep, managed as per Anke's post does also appeal...for the right breed...suggestions?

Desicions, desicions...!!!

shygirl

  • Joined May 2013
Re: What are easier for first timers; Sheep or Cattle
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2013, 08:42:34 pm »

Spoke to a guy locally who has dexters and reckoned two dexters on our lush grass should be fine with the acreage, plus outside all year with minimal poaching or extra feed.

why not get 2 bullock dexter calves to fatten on for meat, then you can put them in the freezer in year 2 and reflect.
the first year on clean fresh grazing will be easier on the land, its the subsequent years with mature cattle and unrested land that will make an acre seem far too small.
or if you are in a dairy area, why not fatten some calves for rose veal?

 

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