[graham-j]

Hi,I have all ready posted a similar question a few months ago.
I  have a small flock of texel X suffolk gimmers (2nd year virgin ewes) I'm looking to buy a ram this will be the first time I have lambed too,though I have some experiance with cattle.
I was advised on hear to go for a Charollais ram rather than a suffolk or a texel.
I have been offered several ram lambs,mainly suffolcks or texals or crosses of them both.
A local shepherd has some Charollais X suffolk and Charollais X texel ram lambs should I go for one of these.
The shepherd I bought my sheep from in the first place says I should buy a texel ram.
I really don't know what to do for the best,I want the lambs 1 to increase my flock and 2 the boys for meat.
By crossing in another bread eg the Charollais,will the ewes be worth keeping or am I just going to end up with a load of mongrels.
Thanks Graham.

[SteveHants]

I wouldn't lamb first time Suffolk x Texels with either a Suffolk or a Texel, I think you will probably end up with stuck lambs. I would put them to something easy lambing, perhaps a Charolais or a Southdown if you want to use a terminal breed. If you wanted something easier lambing I have seen people advocating a Shetland or similar - I'd be tempted to use a Lleyn or something - they would be good and maternal then and you can keep am to put back to the terminals, and hopefully will rear more kg/ewe than the Suffolk x Texel ever did on less feed. 


Yes, you will end up with mongrels, but since you started with a crossbred, question is does it really matter?

[roddycm]

You should go with wtv you like the look of best... I personally would keep the suffolk percentage down and either go for the Charollais X texel or a pure one of either. But as you have been offered a cross you may as well go for him as long as he is sound and nice looking.... As you know the ram is very important, never breed from any ram that you have doubts about! Its just not worth it!

Hope this helps!

[JulieWall]

You're going to get different advice depending on who you ask because everyone has their own preference, it's tricky. A friend of mine from farming stock reckons Texels are all born with a death wish but it hasn't been my experience.

I noticed that the bidders at the mart seemed to like Suffolk and Suffolk crosses I switched to a Suffolk tup to use on my Texel crossed Suffolk and Jacob crosses. Last two years running I got top price on the day for my stores and meat lambs. I don't buy in creep feed unless for a bottled lamb and they grow like mushrooms on good pasture and mother's milk. Don't ever breed your gimmers until their second year when they've attained their adult weight and they'll do just fine delivering the big Suffolk heads, they are designed for it after all.
You really need to take the advice of a shepherd you trust if you are inexperienced but you will learn quickly if you are a bit more 'hands on'. Ask to go and help out with the lambing and you'll get to see all sorts of malpresentations and how they are dealt with, it's a good way to learn.
My best tip for you as a newbie is to get the flock in and handle them kindly as often as you can. The more they trust you the easier a time you will have when it comes to lambing.
A word of caution though, Suffolk tups can be snotty and if the tup is too tame he will not respect you. Keep him a little bit wary of you or you could have a problem. Never let any tup think he can intimidate you, or he will.

[ZaktheLad]

I would personally stay away from the texels as many are very large in the shoulder and head which can lead to lambing issues and the lamb getting stuck.  Charollais have smaller heads but I have found the lambs are not all that hardy due to the lack of fleece compared to other breeds.  I have previously had both texel and charollais tups but this year I purchased a Hampshire Down ram lamb of 7 months and the lambs he has produced have been lovely.  I had no issues lambing, even a ewe lamb and shearling lambed unaided.  The lambs were the most vigorous at birth that I have ever seen, literally searching for the teat on the way out!!   The lambs are also extremely hardy and the growth rate is exceptional, with mine reaching finishing in circa 3 months on grass.  I would not look at any other breed of tup now!

[Hillview Farm]

I put my Suffolk mule ewes (first timers as well) to a Suffolk ram. Not one lambing problem, all lambed unaided!

The lambs will make lovely replacements and the meat tastes great!

[mowhaugh]

Suffolks - lots of lambs, dopey and hard work to get started, up here don't sell as well as Texel X

Texels - shapely lambs, quicker to get going, lower lamb numbers, more lambing problems, popular with coomercial buyers.

We are currently having a huge dilemma about tups too, not knowing what to put over our draft age Cheviots - in the past we have used Texel X Milk Sheep tups, and they've been perfect, but can't get these any more.  We will sell the wether lambs as stores, and keep the best ewe lambs as replacements to the tup with the Meatlinc to produce fat lambs - we've looked at loads of breeds, but the Berrichon is looking favourite at the moment - almost as shapely and well finishing as the texel, but with better lamb numbers, hardier and more milky and maternal - apparently - will let you know how we get on!

[SallyintNorth]

I'd go for the Charollais X Texel.  If the tup is thin-fleeced and bare-headed, then be prepared to put jackets on the lambs if they are born with thin fleece, or to lamb indoors if the weather is bad.

As to your sheep being mongrels, that's what most 'commercial sheep' (like ours) are.  Mongrels bred in a specific way to gain the benefits and as few as possible of the problems of the breeds in the mix.

For instance, a lot of ours are:

((Swaledale X Blue-faced Leicester (North of England mule)) X Texel or Beltex ) X Charollais

These put to the Dutch Texel give us the fat lambs the supermarket wants out of a ewe that does well in our system.

Next year we'll be putting a few of the Dutch Texel daughters back to a Shetland X from one of the above sheep - it'll be interesting to see how they turn out.  We'd use pure Shetland but are nervous of having horned tups on the farm, especially ones that can jump 

[Hillview Farm]

Suffolks - lots of lambs, dopey and hard work to get started

I'm sorry but I really dont agree with this statement! I get singles and twins for using suffolk rams on half crossed suffolk ewes. None of my lambs have been dopey nor hard work. Mine have all hit the ground and got up and going within 5 mins. Dont let people put you off suffolks for this reason as its not always true! Yes maybe pure suffolks are like this but not mine!

AlSo down here suffolks sell well here at market better than anything!

[mowhaugh]

Suffolks - lots of lambs, dopey and hard work to get started

I'm sorry but I really dont agree with this statement! I get singles and twins for using suffolk rams on half crossed suffolk ewes. None of my lambs have been dopey nor hard work. Mine have all hit the ground and got up and going within 5 mins. Dont let people put you off suffolks for this reason as its not always true! Yes maybe pure suffolks are like this but not mine!

AlSo down here suffolks sell well here at market better than anything!

That's good, pleased you get on well with them.  We found just about all of ours needed help getting up to suck, and although the tups were making excellent prices, because of extra staff needed at lambing time and so on, they just weren't worth it to us.  They are pretty, though.  it is interesting to hear how different breeds sell in different places, it would be a good 10-15p/kg less for suffolk vs texel round here - local knowledge is always valuable!  I suppose it also depends on the cross of the ewe you are putting them over - over something like a mule, I think they are they are grand.

[graham-j]

Hi,thanks for all the replies,there are certainly some different opinions there.
I personally love the Suffolk,and down in this part of the world the Suffolk is the big seller.
I am concerned about my own ability and think the Charolais X Texel ram will help me as much as anything come lambing time.
Yes I know a local shepherd,but tying him down is a nightmare.But I will try to get some experience first.

Thanks Graham.

[Eastling]

Oh Graham didn't know you were into tying shepherds down   have only witnessed you wrangling sheep!

[graham-j]

I tye anything once

Graham

[Dougal]

To be honest it makes not a jot of difference what breed of tup you use. You will have good strong ewes that will have a back end like the mersey tunnel come lambing time. Go and look at the various tups and pick the one that you think you'd like females from. The wethers will be with you for 6 months. The ewe lambs will be with you for 6 years!!
The most important thing for an easy lambing has nothing to do with the breed and everything to do with the weather and the way the ewes are fed in the run up to lambing. Feed right and the job will be a whole lot simpler.