[mowhaugh]

It is a very difficult situation, and I think one which is hard to discuss on a forum where some people know each other in person and some people don't, and it is easy to misunderstand someone's meaning when you can't hear tone of voice, see body language etc.

The horse market at the moment is dire.  When I advertise a pony, I put on what I believe it is (or should be) worth, and then state quite clearly no offers.  If someone isn't prepared to pay for the bloodlines, time effort, resources etc., then they can't have it.  On the other hand, I have also given away a pony because she was needing a different home (she needed to be kept busy and I was pregnant with our first son).

On the other side of things, I recently paid a considerable amount of money for a Shetland pony, and I consider it money very well spent, even though it has meant going without various other things that would normally be considered more essential, he is for my two tiny sons, and he is a saint in pony form, as well as having superb conformation, which hopefully means we will have him for many, many years.  I have also been given quality ponies in that past, because they were needing a different home or purpose, but I think this is much easier with people you know.

Good luck finding your new pony, leesey.

[SteveHants]

Animals, like anything else are only worth what people will pay for them. Thats free-market capitalism for you.


Its tough when the market commands less than you'd like, but thats just life in stock production.


If shetland ponies aren't worth much, produce something that is. If you can't produce chickens and make a profit, dont do it.


We don't eat enough horse in this country anyway. 

[cloddopper]

An interesting thread.
 The market place is flooded with all sorts of animals and livestock where a heck of a lot the breeders have caught a cold hoping to make money out of the creatures that they can't now sell or rehome cheaply .

I applaud your stance "  M'lord"  I'd hope to re home any excess stock I had with someone who I felt could afford to give it a good life .

 There are lots & lots of animals coming on stream for a few pounds as breeders are still breeding their animals hoping for a show stopper ( and thus profits ) and the market to pick up for their rejects .


 My wife & Munchkin are " Many Tears " animal rescue kennel helpers/dog walkers etc... the vast majority of the animals are kennel throw outs who have reached the end of their breeding life or are abandoned farmed dogs and cats chucked out when someone wants to go on holiday or  abandoned sick in need of veterinary treatment  .

My thoughts now run ( have done ever since I ran a small mammal farm )  ..... if you breed animals make sure you can handle the offspring financially and also everything that goes with it .
 Sometimes it became a very very hard decision to cull excess stock and send the carcasses off for human consumption , pet food ,  bird food , to a zoo , for a breeding /species revival programme or maggot meat .

 It made me realize that being a successful  breeder of any stock or animal does have many far reaching responsibilities & consequences , some of which are not particularly pleasant.

[langfauld easycare]

aw well here is ma tuppence worth 
the country is awash with un wanted horses at the moment . couldnt count how many i have been offered for free in the last couple of years for my daughters especialy shetlands .my mate recently bought a bit of land which a guy was grazing shetlands on there was a bit of a stink as he had payed for the grazing for another couple of months, to save any grief my mate bought the 6 shetlands from the guy for the grand sum of £200( for all 6 )
 if leesy is willing to give one a good home then hats of to her/him it will be one less unwanted /neglected horse .
 to say something will be better looked after because it cost alot of money is rubbish .


 i new a family in the borders who changed there dog more often than i changed my underpants some of them costing into the thousands the one that sticks in my mind was a british bull dog that was given away after a few months as she was sick of it snoring !! at the time it cost £1200 .i also no a guy who payed big money for pedigree texel sheep then lost interest there were sheep with strike and ones so lame they could hardly walk . he gave them away in the end


on the horse meat man side of things surley any animal which is unwanted whether it be a hen ,sheep ,pig or pony if its fit for consumption then it should go in the food chain . got to be better than it standing in some field neglected or shot and draged onto the knackers lorry
i could rant on but iam running out of beer  but if i ever do get my girls a pony it probably will be a shetland will i pay for it.....neigh chance   amen
 

[honeyend]

I do not sell ponies very often but I have bought a few, so as yearlings and my most expensive pony was £2000 which to my husband is a lot of money. Unfortunately  ponies have been a bit like the south sea bubble and the unwise have bred thinking selling a foal is a way to make money, there are still a lot of foals going to be for sale this year.
 A well mannered well trained pony with good confirmation will always sell and a nice Shetland that has been ridden,  is good with children will be worth £600- 800 but you have  to get to about 6 or 7 years, and one that will do well in the show ring ridden could make £1500-£2000. Just because the general horse market is poor do not think there is not a market for quality, nicely produced animals,
 If you want to pay little or no money I can give you links to sites where you can get ponies for the cost of transport but they will be poorly put together, not wormed unhandled and will probably have a go at biting and kicking you. Like all livestock unless you are experienced and prepared to take a risk of the animal being diseased always buy from someone who has spent time and money on their stock you will pay more but far less than they cost to produce.
 

[doganjo]

I wish everyone who breeds dogs would listen to you.  I have only ever bred a litter when I have at least as many, but preferable more, knowledgeable; homes lined up than expected pups. 7 litters in 30 years, two pure breeds.  I bred when I wanted a new puppy, but only when I had enough buyers as well.  Far too many people breeding in order to buy cars, holidays, new furniture  etc without realizing/remembering/taking note that what they are producing lives at least 12 years and may change hands a number of times - if they are lucky and don't get lost in the meantime.

[leesey]

I do not sell ponies very often but I have bought a few, so as yearlings and my most expensive pony was £2000 which to my husband is a lot of money. Unfortunately  ponies have been a bit like the south sea bubble and the unwise have bred thinking selling a foal is a way to make money, there are still a lot of foals going to be for sale this year.
 A well mannered well trained pony with good confirmation will always sell and a nice Shetland that has been ridden,  is good with children will be worth £600- 800 but you have  to get to about 6 or 7 years, and one that will do well in the show ring ridden could make £1500-£2000. Just because the general horse market is poor do not think there is not a market for quality, nicely produced animals,
 If you want to pay little or no money I can give you links to sites where you can get ponies for the cost of transport but they will be poorly put together, not wormed unhandled and will probably have a go at biting and kicking you. Like all livestock unless you are experienced and prepared to take a risk of the animal being diseased always buy from someone who has spent time and money on their stock you will pay more but far less than they cost to produce.

My last horse (before the Shetland I currently own) was a youngster. We'll handled, attractive, and beautiful piebald markings. Lovely colt. Certainly didn't cost me over a thousand but yes he was more expensive to buy than a Shetland. I didn't pay through the nose for my current Shetland though and she has excellent breeding. I have avoided going to a dealer despite knowing he has Shetlands on offer, because I don't like the notion of en masse purchasing of horses without knowing their histories etc.

Once again, I'll add that I'm in no hurry to find one so I'm not going to go get something simply because it's cheap or free. If that was the case I'd have it already, I've made many enquiries!

My goal all along, which I stated in the first instance, was to rehome an animal that perhaps someone no longer has a use for or cannot keep anymore. I Said in my first post that long term loan would be fine. Plenty of people put ponies out on lt or even permanent loan.

It surprises me to find out that even Lord Flynn has rescued a Shetland... Was that one 'undervalued' too because it was a rescue?

Let me point out to anyone who's unaware of my background - I'm new to smallholding and chickens, which is why I joined the forum. But horses I know, and have done for two decades. Shetlands are new to me, I'll admit that, but as a mum I've had to change my views on the ideal horse! I love equines of all shapes and sizes, and consider none of them worthless. I hope that clarifies a few things

[ellied]

It's interesting, when I read the post about the shetland originally I thought good luck to her, she'll be inundated with offers of free ponies because there are so many being given away ie dumped for various reasons from bad conformation and ill health, hidden or otherwise problems, financial hardship, marital breakup, kids losing interest.. but will likely pay ten times over for getting it to the point of health and work she might want for it.  Takes all sorts, and if one of those thousands of unwanted animals gets a home half way better than what it has now, good.  Hope she knows what she's looking at or she'll be fleeced by someone despite not paying a penny other than travel.

When I read LF's post, as a breeder, I agree that folk wanting something for nothing strike me as a dubious offer to even consider when it comes to livestock, and irresponsible, though desperate, to respond to.  But if everyone felt that way then there would be no success stories so there's a place for optimists and desperation I guess.  Some people are willing to take on the problem pony or dog or cat or cockerel, and make a go of it, some of those are experienced and competent to do so, some aren't and the animal is worse off with the do-gooder that isn't than with the meat man.  I have taken on free ponies before and done extensive vet related work and personal behavioural rehab work with them and hope they all ended up better off for it, even the ones I subsequently loaned or sold on once suitable for a job clearly specified.  One is still here that my vet at the time said only another vet or an idiot would take on - and I'm not a vet! 

I would only give to someone I know and trust, and cannot comprehend putting a pony in a paper as free to good home, I'd rather have it pts than chuck it out in that way and hope for the best.  And I have done exactly that, at my expense had a vet come out, a knacker lorry pick up and paid for what others might have dumped or sent to market or passed on as a freebie to avoid taking responsibility for.

I've taken them on, so I was that kind of person - but I couldn't honestly tell from the ad alone as written whether the poster was looking for a freebie, a genuinely experienced rescue/rehab home, or a well meaning but basically unknowing target for all kinds of con and offloading.  Where shetlands are concerned I also had my doubts about the suitability of many potential free ponies for a. a job of work and/or b. a child to be around, and that raises further concerns that may be totally irrelevant if the shetland is simply a companion to live its days eating. 

A redraft might be all it takes to bring the kind of animal being looked for, rather than the kind of throwaway owners a breeder would hate to think had ended up with any poor animal we had bred or cared for since birth.  I don't think someone offering a home to an unwanted animal should be criticised, but nor do I think a breeder should be criticised for feeling protective of animals being handed over unwanted and in this society for many people to value anything, they have to have paid for it.  Sometimes even then they don't if it's an animal, it's just an animal, an accessory to be changed seasonally and thrown in the bin like last years trendy handbag or shoes

Anyway, I don't have a shetland, never plan to have one, and don't need worry about the ad further than to say that a new member is unknown beyond the words they choose to use, so words need to be carefully picked to give a correct impression and I would say from the responses that they are perhaps a little ambiguous if there is such room for doubt, so perhaps just start over?

MTA cross posted with leesey and as this latest post is way clearer about her suitability as a home, it makes my point about the original ad not being clear enough.  Sorry leesey, no criticism intended of you as a potential home at all, just the way you advertised sells you short.  And the ad might bring you not just criticism from the likes of LF but a huge number of highly unsuitable ponies for your children, which you've already said you'll probably end up spending a fortune to back/school to the point of suitability anyway.  I don't know what to suggest but hope you find the right pony and the right pony finds you.

[lord flynn]

 If you want to pay little or no money I can give you links to sites where you can get ponies for the cost of transport but they will be poorly put together, not wormed unhandled and will probably have a go at biting and kicking you. Like all livestock unless you are experienced and prepared to take a risk of the animal being diseased always buy from someone who has spent time and money on their stock you will pay more but far less than they cost to produce.

thankyou-well made points that I obviously failed to make. There's an old adage with horses -how do you make a million with horses? Start with 2 million! I wasn't talking about making money, god knows with all the effort and money put into them, even if you could sell a young (4yo) Shetland for £400 atm it wouldn't come close to 'making' money. Horse people know this and in times like these, its the middle and low end of the market that suffers-especially from a welfare POV. Responsible breeders have cut right back on breeding, ones with enough money aren't selling atm, they are keeping them, training them and selling them later as useful trained animals-they won't be making any money on them but it does give them a better chance in life. Ponies in particular get a rum deal IMO which is daft, surely a sound, well prepared kid friendly pony is worth its weight!


Other types of people continue to overbreed, they can sell them for next to nothing because they put so little in, even for less than meat they are making some sort of profit. Flooding the market with poor specimens, badly done and people taking them on exacerbates the market. Of course, by word of mouth there are nice ponies to be had-but IME they'll be for sale or loan.


(as for horse meat-well I agree with that! as long as its regulated I have no problem with it-better than than shipping these poorly bred native ponies live for salami in Italy).


I have two horses on 'free' loan-both with legal contracts on how the owners want them kept, one short term and one for as long as I want him. Loans can go wrong, horses can go missing but its up to the owners to check out loanees and keep tabs on their animals. It can work very well. If you sell you don't have to sell to just anyone, you can check them out and I personally woudnt ever gift a horse to anyone-loan yes, gift no. Oh, and first refusal contracts are worth nothing in court just fyi, it cannot be legally enforced if money has been exchanged or if no loan contract can be proved.


I don't breed horses, I don't even sell them to date. I do breed chickens in a very small way and so far all I've sold and all the cockerels I've rehomed I've known exactly where they are going. I've refused people who want to buy a single grower for example, or can't keep the breeds I have in the best way for them. When we move, spare cockerels will be run on and eaten.


I haven't rescued a shetland, I rescued an Exmoor from the sales ring, he wasn't free and was the going rate for a weanling. He's turned out very nice and I have high hope for him as a ride/drive pony for me. Even as an established ride/drive pony in a couple of years he'll not be worth more than 6/800 probably as they are an unfashionable breed and not for everyone. He'll not be for sale but I'd not give him away either.


The pony I have on long term loan went through various low end sales rings from weaning until 4yo and unfortunately it didnt do him any good character wise, meant that he'd never make a children's pony. But he somehow fell on his feet with his owner-and hopefully me, he's now 20.  Exmoors are all undervalued, they are all awesome   

[lord flynn]

Leesy, is there a Shetland Pony forum or Facebook group? There's one for Exmoors and Highlands I think-with maybe a little rewording you may well find what you want on such a site in time.

[leesey]

I'm already on the Shetland group for Central Scotland on facebook, and a Shetland pony rescue group. Lovely groups, nothing that's been suitable. It's mostly miniatures that are around now, so I'll bide my time. This isn't the only place I've been looking, and plenty people have been in touch, just waiting to find the right one.

I've not had to reword anywhere else, so I'm happy just to let it lie, I'm not going to readvertise here, just keep at it through other networks and word of mouth. Thanks though!

[Derby_menagerie]

The title of this post was very misleading! lol

[Dan]

The title of this post was very misleading! lol

 

[SallyintNorth]

The title of this post was very misleading! lol

Took me a moment to realise, too!   

[chrismahon]

i'm rather confused as well by the title, but that's why I read it all. So the bottom has dropped out of the horse market so much that they are being collected for food? Same happens with unwanted cockerels. Free to good home is a bit of a cop-out. In our case it was £20 delivered to good home, no collections!


Had Cheval for dinner yesterday -over priced I thought considering the lack of taste. Beef is far better.