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Author Topic: Breeding with related stock  (Read 3335 times)

mentalmilly

  • Joined Nov 2012
Breeding with related stock
« on: July 06, 2013, 08:22:10 pm »
Has anyone bred muscovy ducks ,mating brothers to sisters?  Was asked this today by someone and could not say for sure if it was a good idea or not.  What would be the consequences if done?  I thought it best if the drake was not related to the ducks but again not sure.
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doganjo

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Re: Breeding with related stock
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2013, 08:44:41 pm »
I think breeding in birds is a lot different to other animals.  I personally would have the drake a different line to females, but on another thread I was told that a breeding trio didn't need to be from different lines - that was chickens I think.
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

northfifeduckling

  • Joined Jan 2009
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Re: Breeding with related stock
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2013, 08:56:54 pm »
Cameron and I were discussing just that and maybe to swap drakes next year - but ours are related even if only remotely.   ::) I think it is better if mates are not related but re consequences I can't help  :&>

mentalmilly

  • Joined Nov 2012
Re: Breeding with related stock
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2013, 09:13:18 pm »
I know you can breed in faults in chickens if using related stock, but on the other hand you can use related stock to improve stock.  Wondered if not showing birds, if using related ducks normal and healthy with no known problems, would it matter.  I should think mating the offspring of brother and sister together, which would also be brothers and sisters, second generation, would be a bit iffy. Hope someone can follow this cause i'm getting muddled and probably having a senior moment now.

doganjo

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Re: Breeding with related stock
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2013, 09:56:11 pm »
I think it depends what you are going to do with the offspring.  If you intend selling them(or even giving) to other people you have a responsibility to investigate the genetic history of your birds/animals before breeding at all.  If you find a trait in one that is undesirable and the same trait in another then you don't breed them.

Breeding dogs is relatively simple - they all get names so you can trace their inbreeding coefficient easily.  You ideally want a mid range COI rather thane extremes, but as well as that you need to know exactly what is behind both of the breeding pair.  For instance I happen to know someone in my breed who has had a dog castrated because he had sired three pups(not all in teh same litter)  with a certain inherited condition - but she didn't check to see if the gene was doubled up in the bitches lines - silly to remove the dog when it MAY have been either of the bitches, OR more likely, the combinations.

If you intend to keep all the progeny then you don't have a problem, breed anything to anything, and if you get ailments you cull.
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

darkbrowneggs

  • Joined Aug 2010
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Re: Breeding with related stock
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2013, 10:49:41 pm »
I think the received wisdom is that one would only breed brother to sister if they were both near perfect examples and you wanted to fix those extra special traits within the line, as doing so will fix all traits both good and bad.


With poultry if you are trying to improve traits it is fairly usual to breed back daughters and granddaughters to the original male and vice versa, but really only for that far, and for a specific purpose.


Say with the genes for dark brown eggs if you bring in completely fresh blood you may improve the egg colour  for the first cross but it needs to be handled carefully after that. 


I think to your muscoveys brother to sister is very little point as it sounds as though there is nothing you are seeking to improve and there are usually plenty of spare muscovey drakes around especially late in the season
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doganjo

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Re: Breeding with related stock
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2013, 11:12:20 pm »
I know you can breed in faults in chickens if using related stock, but on the other hand you can use related stock to improve stock.  Wondered if not showing birds, if using related ducks normal and healthy with no known problems, would it matter.  I should think mating the offspring of brother and sister together, which would also be brothers and sisters, second generation, would be a bit iffy. Hope someone can follow this cause i'm getting muddled and probably having a senior moment now.
You can't 'breed in' faults.  The faults are always there in the background, as well as the good points.  What you can do is bring faults to the fore if you inbreed rather than linebreed, that's why you need to check what's behind breeding stock.
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

darkbrowneggs

  • Joined Aug 2010
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Re: Breeding with related stock
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2013, 12:00:03 am »
Has anyone bred muscovy ducks ,mating brothers to sisters?  Was asked this today by someone and could not say for sure if it was a good idea or not.  What would be the consequences if done?  I thought it best if the drake was not related to the ducks but again not sure.


There is a good explanation and a useful diagram on this page of this interesting old poultry book - you have to scroll down the page to where it says "Line Breeding"


http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/ppp/ppp6.html
« Last Edit: July 07, 2013, 12:01:49 am by darkbrowneggs »
To follow my travel journal see http://www.theworldismylobster.org.uk

For lots of info about Marans and how to breed and look after them see www.darkbrowneggs.info

shygirl

  • Joined May 2013
Re: Breeding with related stock
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2013, 12:55:23 am »
in general, breeding between siblings is less favoured than breeding father/daughter or mother /son as the dna pool is so restricted. i personally wouldnt do it on purpose.

breeding muscovies with another breed supposedly creates infertile offspring.

 

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