[Lesley Silvester]

There shouldn't be a need for any child to have a bad education in Britain, whatever their family circumstances. There are outstanding schools in the state sector that don't cost families much, and those that need help, with uniform, trips etc can get it.

My own school is outstanding and our students are mainly from dales farming families, so by and large, not very well off at all. I've just signed a couple of uniform grants today. The kids round here are lucky as the three state schools locally are all outstanding - different, but all very good quality, and in fact, better quality than the private / public schools around, in pretty much all areas of school life.

The difficulty only arises if you live in an area where the local state schools are poor - there are pockets of course.

University is a different business entirely.

If you don't have a decent school where you are, home education is not so difficult as it was. As a teacher, I was totally against it until I saw it in action in several families. I tutored two youngsters who were both home educated (in both cases because they were being bullied at school and the school did nothing about it) and they were well rounded, bright youngsters. I taught them maths because both mothers were weak in that subject. The second one ended up working at a year above her school age because she was having one to one attention for an hour a week and help with homework which I set.

There is plenty of material available through organisations such as Education Otherwise, as well as support and back up. Most families in an area meet up regularly for various reasons, such as outings for the children (educational and fun) and group activities such as art classes.

[RUSTYME]

I know which type of peasant i am Mak .

[john and helen]

I have to smile as I aspire to be a peasant.....

totally agree, 

[happygolucky]

The education bit is interesting, I suppose we all want to make the most of what we  have and if we have children or pets, then the same goes for them.
We are not all academic  but unless children are given the opportunity you will never know, also the measure of success is not always money or intellect.
I am immensely proud of my three girls, they did well at school, and are doing even better in the real world, no amount of education would have made them better people, although I do think a good education makes people much more confident.
However, if I had the money I would pay privately for education but what parents and other people teach a child in life skills, are just maybe more valuable.

[jaykay]

I wouldn't pay privately for education, even if I had the money.

The standards, in lessons and other areas, are lower at our local private/ public schools than in the surrounding state schools, but the arrogant attitudes they teach are very much higher.

Time after time, visiting speakers who go into both schools in town (ours, the state school and the top flight public school) say our kids are nicer, harder-working and more clued up about many things, and not just the 'street' stuff but wider issues too.

What you pay for in a private school is snob-factor - both bragging rights and who your kids rub shoulders with.

[Backinwellies]

interesting thread bouncing from  peasant farming to  education
'
I'd never heard of this organisation either....... but do wonder how the 'peasants'  belonging to it financed a trip to Jakarta ............ (or am I cynical?)

As for education ..... I got to be on this smallholding now by my own parents (poor farmers) sacrificing things to get me and my brother to uni (in 80's when there was financial support for us peasants to go!!)  .....  education led to job..... job earned money...... money bought smallholding........... and now still working on line in education field to support it.  Without the education I would still be working the land I suspect but for someone else. .... and I definitely wouldn't have had money to send my children to Uni (not that any of them opted to go............ yet?). 


Oh and Jayjay  I do agree ... but who you rub shoulders with can make a great difference!

[jaykay]

who you rub shoulders with can make a great difference

It does, the old boys' network is very powerful still and people still recruit folk 'they went to school with'.

But it shouldn't, should it? Capable people, whatever school they went to, as long as they've worked hard and done well, should have equal access to positions of power and influence, as well as responsible jobs.

Otherwise we're governed and run by folk who only know a very limited (and privileged) part of the human spectrum, and make their decisions accordingly.

[fiestyredhead331]

gosh lots of interesting questions this is bringing up!

I am the latest in a long line of peasants I suppose. My primary education was in a school with a TOTAL of 5 children (I was the only one in my year group) and my 3 sons have gone through the same, the eldest who is 16 has this year been elected to the Scottish Youth Parliament in Edinburgh, so I don't hold with the argument that larger schools mean a higher standard of education.
and as far as 'crofting' is concerned which I suppose is just another name for peasant farming, as far I can tell I am the only one actually 'working' the croft (pigs,sheep,goats,chickens, vegetables...) every other croft round here is used as grazing for sheep all year round as none of the sheep round here go out onto the hill anymore and those not used for grazing have been sold off as house sites for people to build holiday homes so there may be some truth in the saying there's no such thing as a poor crofter 
While I may not have a proverbial pot to p*ss in.....I am rich in the knowledge that I am doing something I love with my family around me and my kids know the value of a pound of sausages and where they come from 

[RUSTYME]

Exactly the situation we are in now , and have been for some time JK .
Cameron , Clegg ,Osbourne and hovering like a shitehwk on the wing , Johnson . All arrogant , rich , totally self centered and completely out of touch with reallity , and where did they get taught ?
Funny how they all ended up working together in the cabinet , all voted in democratically of course , my arse !
They are now in the proccess of hitting all around them . The system is dead and they are like drowning men , flailing around , unable to swim , and needing more and more money to sustain their corrupt way of life . In doing so they are using anyone near them to keep themselves afloat .
So peasant smallholders will likely be the norm soon . Not the 'living the dream'  way  though ,
that is something very different .
I have seen hundreds try 'living the dream' since 1977 when we came to Wales , most were living in a dream , and lasted the obligatory 2-3 years ( till the money ran out) and then scurried back whence they came . Living the life , as opposed to the dream , is hard , very hard , few can cope . Many think this lifestyle is like ' the good lfe ' , it isn't , that was a tv series not reality .
Many want the easy life ?  That's not any form of real smallholding i have seen .
 There are others that live the life though , they are the ones i would call 'peasant smallholders' .
Their numbers may increase , but this time it will be through necessity not via any dream .

[plumseverywhere]

Yesterday my 11 year old daughter was asked in school "what skills could you all bring should there be a major disaster and we needed to work to survive...?". Milli said "I can milk a goat, grow vegetables and cook". She was the only one in her class with skills that have been passed down generations and that are truly useful (as her teacher stated!)
Our girls went to one school (not private) and it was cr$p - so we moved them to a great one. In the countryside I guess we are relatively lucky, so long as we are not too remote, that there are usually places in the village schools for that flexibility. I'm not going to pass broad judgments on people but I am more inclined to agree that private education leads to less pleasant personality traits (ie. capitalism at what cost?!)   Many of my friends are successful at what they do and are from a similar educational background as myself ie. a local comprehensive type!  My girls are supported at home with their education and we liaise with their teachers regularly to ensure we are doign all we can to support their learning.
Where we live, Evesham - a well known market gardening town surrounded by farms and not much else! - we have 2 main high schools. One is doing 'ok' and is ofsted rated 'good' - the other is ofsted rated 'Outstanding' and their A-level grades reflect this. I know which I'd like to see my daughters go to    I want them to do well but I also want them to value life and living not just cash 

[SallyintNorth]

I'd never heard of this organisation either....... but do wonder how the 'peasants'  belonging to it financed a trip to Jakarta ............ (or am I cynical?)

Err, yeah, Linda in this case you are being cynical.  I know Jyoti Fernandes and Simon Fairlie, and they are both 100% straight up right on environmentally-minded folk, very much walking the walk as well as talking the talk.

Simon was a founder member of Tinkers' Bubble and is a (possibly the) founder and still one of the main folk at Chapter 7, the planning arm of This Land Is Ours.  I've pointed quite a few TASers in their direction when they've been researching getting planning permission to live on the land they work. 

When I met Simon he was living in a gypsy bow-top in the woods at the Bubble, rearing the pigs, caring for the Jersey house cows and working the Shire X who did the logging and carting.

Jyoti was at the Bubble, before my time there, then she and a few others got together and bought / created Fivepenny Farm as another co-operative venture.  The very first West Country Scything Festival was held there in 2005, which was where I finally got to meet Jyoti.

I was incredibly inspired by the people I met and the things I saw at Tinkers' Bubble, Fivepenny Farm and places like them.  Very few people, with the possible exception of Russ, can begin to comprehend how much these people do with how very very little money and input from the wider world - including fossil fuel.

I absolutely loved it at the Bubble and did think long and hard about whether I would like to live there.  In the end I had to admit that the life is too hard for me for a way of life.  Fantastic experience, but too much for a long stint.

As to travelling to Jacarta - lots of people travel the world with little money.  It's not so hard when you're that kind of person.  I imagine that in this case Jyoti's travel expenses were covered by the Land Workers' Alliance.  I don't suppose she travelled BA 1st class 

[SallyintNorth]

On the subject of education, I was about to post that as far as I am aware, there are very good educations on offer from our state schools.  Certainly there are several very excellent state schools in my area.  Of course jaykay beat me to it, so I don't need to say much more about that!   

On the subject of university education, though, I am in need of bringing up to date, it seems.  My non-parental understanding was that a university education was available on merit, but that unless the family wish to and can  pay, the degree is financed by a very long term low interest government loan to the student, which the student will only repay when and if their salary reaches a level at which they can afford to start repaying.

As I say, I don't have children, but to me that does not mean that a university education is available only to people with money. 

 

[southernskye]

Simon Fairlie is also, I assume as the name cannot be a common one, the same chap who imports/sells/uses the Austrian Scythes?
I have one, a jolly fine bit o kit it is too.....tis just the operator who is rubbish.
Note to self...practice!
Rgds
Sskye

[SallyintNorth]

Yup, same Simon.  Hence the first West Country Scything Festival... 

[Fleecewife]

There's more to going to uni though than the basic cost of tuition.  Consider the time spent in education, compared to the extra years children could spend working on the smallholding.  In effect, that is costing the parents the 2 years labour during sixth form, and three or four whilst their offspring is at Uni, not to mention travel to get the child to a 'good' local school, if you're lucky enough to have one, and providing some living expenses while at Uni, plus travel there and accommodation.  Sure, there are giant bank loans which are to be paid off eventually - but the thought of having that hanging over your head for years is definitely enough to put off many prospective students.
There's also the possible understanding/assumption that the offspring will continue to work on the smallholding, so wanting a further education may require some feelings of letting down ones parents, which can be a strong influence.
 
Had I stayed at the village school or the convent I attended until I was 10, then I would not have gone to Uni.  Had I not gone to Uni I would not have obtained my degree in nursing.  Had I not nursed at that level and with that degree of scientific and research based knowledge, then I would not have helped to further nursing knowledge so we can all deliver the best care.  There is nothing at all involved in that which would make me a selfish, money grabbing individual with no understanding of many walks of life - nor one who wants to rule the world, for my own power or not. 

Do I detect a whole load of prejudice in some of the replies?  Sure, some folk who went to Eton or Harrow, Oxford or Cambridge, will be yahs living like leaches on the rest of us, out only for themselves.  There will also be many uneducated people who live the stereotypical idle life on the dole.  However, there are also many ex pupils of Eton and Harrow who have given their lives in service to this country, many who hold top jobs as research scientists, a few philanthropists, and many people who simply live a normal, hard working life.  There are also uneducated people who are highly intelligent, and also give their lives for their country, or serve the wider population in medicine, research, government and so on.  Sweeping statements are as distasteful in one direction as in the other.
 
 
For myself, I do have children and we chose to give them the best education we could before we took up smallholding, and what they did with that was their choice.  I hope they considered their children's future when they made that choice - in fact I know they did.