[deepinthewoods]

no your missing the point. this legislation directly affects those disabled people. in a harsh and unfair way.

your op would seem to support that.

[deepinthewoods]

in a rented 2 bed house with no central heating. that i pay exactly 1 half of my monthly wage to stay in. or id be in a caravan too.

[happygolucky]

On paper it all sounds pretty reasonable, like people say, why should one person live in a home meant for more, but then there are people who's have say 2 children under 10 and they will not be allowed a bedroom each until they are older than 10, then same sex children will have to share until they are adults (not too sure until I re check) and people often change the family make up, so lots of moving around, no stability, I am sure its getting more like pre war times when families all shared a bed, and of course with 1 bedroom comes a smaller space so many will have to get rid of furniture and other stuff that means a lot to them, in the big picture we all need to be realistic but to some people, stability is paramount to their state of health.
 ! am currently working with the mental health team and its creating a lot of anxiety amongst the service users, within mental health that in itself can lead to dangerous behaviours and also moving to different areas makes them feel much more vulnerable and isolate, as is my husband, there are a lot of upset people out there who can barely live on what they get already,  In my opinion, its too drastic, too sudden and not enough planning, so when people are too poor to live a decent life, they suffer or turn to crime and we all suffer!!

I am wondering where all the one bedroom properties are for people who are forced to downsize?

As for where all the homes are? not many builders build one  bedroom homes, so they are few and far between, lots of work maybe for builders and removal people!
We own our own house and are going to downsize but thats my choice and we are happy with that, but to keep up rooting your home and family is a hard choice!!

[escapedtothecountry]

Using arguments like "fairness" can be so subjective. I don't think any tax is fair. It is taking away your money and deciding what it should be spent on. I don't particularly think my £900 a month train ticket to get to work is fair, particularly when I get up in the freezing cold and see some people on my street happy to receive benefits who are fit and able enough to do a days work but seemingly are able to decided not to. What one person sees as unfair another thinks is righteous and just.


I also don't think its fair that I still haven't convinced my wife to let me buy a wood-chipper for my birthday...... yet!

[deepinthewoods]

thats not quite the same as not being able to keep yourself warm or feed yourself properly.

[deepinthewoods]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/living-on-benefits-can-you-survive-on-53-a-week-8556169.html

[Castle Farm]

Who are you saying that are in that sort of poverty DITW?

Oh I see ..claiments.

[escapedtothecountry]

Capping benefits at £26,000 for a family unit seems perfectly legitimate... Oh to have a post tax income of £26,000 - wouldn't that be nice. I'll put my name down for that one.

[Castle Farm]

God I wish I was young enough to sign on..£26 grand a year. I'll have some of that.

[happygolucky]

There is also the issue of jobs, so many jobs pay min wage, that wage is hard enough to live and support a family on,  we even find it hard, its easy for me as I came from a time when I could move from job to job and so could a lot of my friends, so agree that some people have had an easy ride but there is no good system to sort the needy from the greedy, I know that every one should contribute to their care and support but some people are just unfortunate, worse is yet to come as I can plainly see all support services getting cut eventually, then what? some will be fine and some will not, glad I am not one of them "at the moment" disability and mental illness and loss of income etc, can drop into anyones life anytime......

[deepinthewoods]

escaped to the country....     im sorry but thats just crap.

the 26k cap would only apply to families with lots of kids and living in a high rental area.

you dont just automatically get 26 k given to you if your on benefits. and tbh, as an ex government hopeful you already know that. please stop offering ridiculous arguments and get to the reality of this.


this is the reality.

the people who have caused this situation isnt the poor claiming housing benefit, its the landlords putting the rents up too high based on spurious valuations based on an overinflated market caused by a shortage of housing provision.

[colliewobbles]

I also don't think its fair that I still haven't convinced my wife to let me buy a wood-chipper for my birthday...... yet!

In the middle of all the angst this really made me laugh 

With respect to the original post - in principle and on paper this seems to make sense but as always policies seem to be knee-jerk and not properly thought through.  Cases should be tested to see if needs justify an extra room, this would surely help out those with disabilities for instance. 

However, I am not in favour of extra rooms being paid for out of my taxes because a couple have become separated - are we really saying we have to pay for 3 bedroom houses for 2 people because the children are in different homes at different times?  And before anyone jumps to conclusions - I have been there, with a boy and a girl and have lived in a two bedroom home because that was all that was available at the time. 

Where people own their own home, if they are living beyond their means then they have to make practical decisions and this may mean down-sizing.  When everyone in the country is having to tighten their belts why should some continue to live with 2 spare bedrooms when other families may be living in B&B?  There is only a finite amount of resources to go around sadly.

Overall I think that the principle comes from a sensible premise but in reality, as it usual with this government, it's badly thought through and will probably result in another U-turn.

Donna

[deepinthewoods]

so are you in favour of politicians buying their second homes with your taxes? is that ok?

[escapedtothecountry]

Deep in the woods - I find it interesting that when someone disagrees with you - be it on nuclear power or indeed the cut in benefits - which defacto cannot be equated to a tax - you play the man not the ball. You may not like my argument - but that does not make it "crap".


BTW - politicians can only rent properties through IPSA or pay the interest on a mortgage - so that comment is factually incorrect. I won't however call it "crap". That would be unfair.

[sabrina]

Ok the offer 2 years ago was, if you would move out of your house that had extra bedrooms you would be paid £1000 per room. Trouble was there is not enough smaller houses to move people into . Bedroom tax is unfair because it goes for the people who need the most help. would the rich move out of their big houses to give a family more room, I think not. By allowing people to come into our country with no job or money to support themselves we are now in such a mess, lack of housing is a major concern. Selling council housing was the first mistake and not building more the 2nd. It should  be that to be allowed into our country you should have money to support yourself and a job to come too like other countries.