[thenovice]

I spoke to a shepherd, who used to farm out in New Zealand. He said the Territory was so vast that the ewes had to lamb by themselves, so the the fit healthy ewes lambed fine, but the sickly or poor quality ewes and lambs were culled out, or just didn't survive. These days, nearly all sheep and lambs, are medicated, and injected and fed at the first sign of illness, or even within hours of being born. I know sheep are expensive, and for a lot of people they are their source of income, but when survival of the fittest is taken away, surely the health of the breed suffers as genetic weakness and poor type continue. Over the centuries the shepherds of old didn't have access to all our meds, so only the healthiest survived, leaving the toughest lines. This time round with my sheep, im going to try and have minimal interference, let them lamb outside under a watchful eye, only treat when I HAVE to, and only breed fom those with the best resistance to worms, good feet, and lamb fine on their own. Any thoughts?

[Fleecewife]

I think that, yes, if we breed from sheep with poor feet, who lose their teeth early, suffer from twin lamb disease and can't raise twins on their own, then we would be perpetuating poor lines.
 
However, I don't think that we can just stand back and leave animals to struggle on alone and die because we don't want to intervene.  I think that culling those which have had problems, but to treat them in the short term, is the only humane way to go.

[Pasture Farm]

It wasnt that long ago when the average age of a Person in the OK to die was Early forties !!!!  Thank goodness for our NHS service and medicines??

[thenovice]

Im not advocating no intervention ( or euthanasia  ), of course I will treat the ones who need help, but as you say choose to breed only from the fittest, hopefully improving the hardiness and health of my whole flock. Should cut down the expense of meds, and nuts in the future, making them more cost effective, and lower maintenance. You cant compare people and animals 

[SallyintNorth]

You cant compare people and animals 

No you can't.  People have free will; when we farm we take away the animals' free will.  We have a duty of care, therefore.

So yes, don't breed from sheep which need a lot of intervention.  But don't neglect those which do.

[Rosemary]

Of course we should only breed from the best. Defining the best isn't always straighforward though and can be a bit of a moveable feast.

[Marches Farmer]

If you don't intervene when needed you lose a lamb or two or three.....    It's a waste of all the years of care, attention, feed and hard work that's gone into the ewe.  We have a very strict cull policy and only breed from the best, as others have said.  The lambs that need lots of help and the ewes that produce them end up in the freezer, sold as stores or sent to cull.  If I'm in the lambing shed and happen to see a ewe that needs a hand, well, that's what I'm there for.  What else am I going to do with my time - get a paper round?

[Pasture Farm]

Wheres Steve Hants when you need him 
 

[Old Shep]

Surely you will keep breeding the sheep that you are not too happy with  (unless its lambing problems) but just don't keep the offspring - send them off for fat? You need to be selective over what off spring you keep on for breeding themselves.

[SteveHants]

Wheres Steve Hants when you need him 

I was having a nice sunday dinner at my parents house....


The situation in NZ is an interesting one - the govt removed all subsidies in the 60s and suddenly, sheep farming had to pay, this meant not feeding them, not keeping poor performers etc. Larger flocks meant that the shepherd had no time to assist at lambing really, culls were worthless so a lot of ewes ended up being shot. The nice thing about the situation here is this:


What happened in NZ has already happened so we can use their genetics without having to go through the very hard times that they had. Cull ewes make a few quid so it wont break the ban to cull out poor performers.


My situation lends itself to NZ style farming - I have no sheds to speak of. I could house a pen of lambs and the odd sick ewe, but that is it. I am a grazier so I don't get any subsidies whatsoever and I need to make my margins to, you know....live. 


Given that we have such good access to meds etc, I see my role as being 'natural selection'. Anybody that would die with no intervention doesn't get to stay in my flock. I think it is bound up in my duty of care not to perpetuate poor sheep because treating, helping at lambing etc is undoubtedly more stressful for the ewe than a natural, unassisted birth, and of course a lamb who cant get up and suck lives a very stressful existence indeed. This is partly why I find it odd that people want to put a ewe back to the ram who had a hard time lambing and put her (and her unborn lambs) though the whole rigmarole all over again. I still jag for colostridials, but I have a feeling that if the work is done, resistant sheep will be found, but it hasn't, so I still jag. I want to get to the stage where I am culling for things like susceptability to worms,and not even thinking about feet, lambing/mothering probs etc, but I will need to invest in FEC kit before I do that.


The more you get sheep that don't need feeding/help etc, the more margin you end up making and the bigger sheep farmers are starting to twig to this. The major downside is, of course that if you are feeding only grass, your stocking density needs to be less. But then, if you have less sheep that are making you money, its a world better than more sheep who are losing you money, isn't it?

[thenovice]

The whole system has to change. Its the demand for a certain type of carcase from supermarkets and butchers that promote this intensive heavily fed sheep. And the nonsense that all fat is bad for you, heaven forbid you see a fleck of white in your joint! That's where the tenderness and flavour comes from, but try convincing joe public that! Also, the fact that breeding ewes of certain types, are quite saleable and worth a bit of cash. Can you blame a farmer or breeder for selling all of their ewes, regardless of quality, if its their livelihood, putting food on their table? 

[SteveHants]

....Can you blame a farmer or breeder for selling all of their ewes, regardless of quality, if its their livelihood, putting food on their table?

Depends where the farmer sells them - If its through mart then the buyer may forget where they originated, but you can bet if they are sold off-farm and you sell some rubbish, word gets around and you wont get any repeat custom.

[thenovice]

Word will get round, by those in the know, to those in the know. But there are always plenty of smallholders and beginners starting out with sheep, who don't have the knowledge or experience. I think maybe its too late, and the horse has bolted, and we may have lost a lot of these good hardy strains, in the ever greater demand for bigger, leggier, leaner sheep 

[SteveHants]

But - the genetic potential is there. If hardy sheep existed once, they can exist again, so you start breeding for those traits. I'm sure for every 1 sheep that needed looking after of whatever breed, there were 10 who never needed much attention etc.

[thenovice]

Don't know why I feel so strongly about this issue, but I do. You are right steve, the potential is there. I for one, am going to try and start doing just that, better late than never. Im not a commercial flock, but in some small way, but will endeavour to stick to my principles.