[edessex]

I currently keep chickens privately, but am also self-employed.  My business is Horticultural services, but I am planning to stretch to Horticultural & Agricultural services, so poultry care would be well within what I do as a trade.

I am considering keeping my chickens as a business sideline.

What are the Pros and Cons of keeping them as a business?

A clear Pro would be that all materials and feed would be a business expense, not a private expense, so that saves me a bit in tax.

Would I have any more responsibilities than I do now?  e.g. egg stamping...

[Dan]

You don't need to stamp eggs unless you're grading them. A bit more info here about selling eggs:

http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/livestock/poultry/selling-eggs/

HTH.

[hughesy]

Regarding re-using old egg boxes? I believe that's not allowed anymore. Also in the TAS article Dan you mention it being illegal to sell eggs from hens running with a cockerel  This has been debated many times in many places and I can't remember anyone being able to come up with the regulation which says this.

[FiB]

Regarding re-using old egg boxes? I believe that's not allowed anymore. Also in the TAS article Dan you mention it being illegal to sell eggs from hens running with a cockerel  This has been debated many times in many places and I can't remember anyone being able to come up with the regulation which says this.

Thanks goodness - I re read the guidlenes and had a little panic!  I dont want to get rid of cockrel as he really does keep them in order (calls them to bed when I say bedtime and waits at the door untill they are all in!).  I havnt dared do the maths... but I dont know what scale you would need to get to to make a decent profit?  I include them in my tax return (but havnt split them from the other incomes and expenses (must do that) - it feels like we about break even with 14 layers (our profit is eating the hatched cockrels and the eggs that are no good to sell (too dirty, thin shell, slight crack, laid in funny place so date of lay unknown etc)). 

[Dan]

Thanks for the heads-up, I'll check out the source of the info about fertile eggs.

I just read on a poultry forum that the sale of graded fertile eggs for human consumption is prohibited, but there is an exemption to this regulation for producers with less than 50 hens who sell their produce "at farm gate" and as ungraded - will try to verify that.

Edit: found it, the regulations list this as a characteristic of class A eggs: "Germ cell: imperceptible development"

The implication is that the presence of a germ cell is acceptable, hence selling eggs from hens running with a cockerel is acceptable. The most important thing will be to sell them as soon after laying as possible, and advise buyers to keep refrigerated.

[edessex]

Thanks guys, just to check I've got this right:

-Ungraded eggs DO NOT need to be stamped
-Fertile eggs CAN be sold 'at the gate'
-Selling as a 'business' is no different to selling privately


On a related note, the local place I buy sacks of corn from also sells fresh eggs, they have a notice saying all eggs sold as of April (I think) MUST be stamped, I also overheard a guy complaining while I was at a livestock auction that he bought 200 eggs and they were all stamped...  Didn't catch the whole conversation, but it sounded like he regularly buys from the same supplier and they are not usually stamped.

Also, is there a legal ratio of hens to cockerels? 

[hughesy]

Whatever the regulations are, and they're pretty difficult to actually pin down, they really relate to food safety issues. For instance using old egg boxes could transfer pathogens onto your fresh eggs. Fertile eggs would not pose any risk to food safety. In my mind if you use common sense and have a reasoned answer for any questions that are asked you won't go far wrong.

[FiB]

Thanks guys, just to check I've got this right:

-Ungraded eggs DO NOT need to be stamped
-Fertile eggs CAN be sold 'at the gate'
-Selling as a 'business' is no different to selling privately


On a related note, the local place I buy sacks of corn from also sells fresh eggs, they have a notice saying all eggs sold as of April (I think) MUST be stamped, I also overheard a guy complaining while I was at a livestock auction that he bought 200 eggs and they were all stamped...  Didn't catch the whole conversation, but it sounded like he regularly buys from the same supplier and they are not usually stamped.

Also, is there a legal ratio of hens to cockerels?

So it sounds like there is breakpoint in regulations at 50 hens.  Selling as a business is differnt to selling privately (presuming you mean cash, not declaring for tax) in that you do list all costs to be ductued against income as you said in initially, thereby being taxed on profit rather than income.  I am self employed as a Forest School leader and have the smallholding listed as a separate business (a huge loss making one at the moment!).  I will be keeping below the 50 hens! (btw I do  write the date of lay on each egg and then there is information to people suggesting best before 3 weeks from date of lay).  I dont think there are any rules about cockrel ratios - but there is lots of advice on here about the right ratio for happy hens (I'm not sure it matters if you have too many hens - unless you want to hatch all your eggs - only too many cockrels) I've 10-20 hens/cockrel in my mind.... anyone??

[edessex]

Would leaving the eggs loose, and providing a stack of 'free' used egg-boxes technically be a loophole, as the customers are putting the eggs in, and not the seller?

Is there any rules about door-to-door sales of eggs?  A few of my clients (for garden maintenance) would probably be interested in buying fresh eggs...

[edessex]

So it sounds like there is breakpoint in regulations at 50 hens.

   I'm buggered then...

[Dan]

So it sounds like there is breakpoint in regulations at 50 hens.

I couldn't find anything to support that at all, other than the need to register your flock if you have over 50 hens. From what I could see the regulations kick in when you start grading eggs.

btw I do  write the date of lay on each egg and then there is information to people suggesting best before 3 weeks from date of lay

We don't mark the eggs at all - our sign says use within 3 weeks of purchase, and we almost always sell out the same day they are laid.

[taz08]

you can have up to 350 hens before you sstart grading and dating eggs ,,
if your in scotland call Senior Agricultural Officer (Poultry): General Enquiries 0300 244 9856
or call the english 1

[mwncigirl]

What an interesting discussion. We have a routing farm inspection pending (we are a small smallholding with a couple of pigs and about 70 chickens, and are panicking. To what extent will we need to adhere to these rules? I can't seem to pin down how far to take these issues.


For example, issues of storing eggs, we clean ours before we sell them (using a proper egg wash) should we be doing this in a designated place? Will this be checked? And what is a flock book??


 

[Dan]

What an interesting discussion. We have a routing farm inspection pending (we are a small smallholding with a couple of pigs and about 70 chickens, and are panicking. To what extent will we need to adhere to these rules? I can't seem to pin down how far to take these issues.


For example, issues of storing eggs, we clean ours before we sell them (using a proper egg wash) should we be doing this in a designated place? Will this be checked? And what is a flock book??

Don't panic too much, the inspections are much more about education than enforcement, the inspectors want you to do things right, and should take the approach of helping you to do that. They seem to be most interested in storage of feed, medicines etc.

As for the chooks, the flock should be registered because of its size, but unless you're grading your eggs you shouldn't need to do much more than sell them in clean boxes and give your customers an indication of when they should use the eggs by.

"Flock book" has a specific meaning for some breeds and species (for example most breeds of sheep maintain a central flock book, which holds the details of registered stock) but for poultry I don't know the term.

We (when I say 'we' I mean Rosemary!) maintain (loosely) a record of what hens are in our flocks, when they were bought, their breed etc, but I don't know if that's a flock book. Where did you see the term?

[mwncigirl]

Thanks Dan, thats reassuring. 'Flock book' was on the list of things the inspector will be wanting to look at. We have registered the chickens, so thats not a problem.


Hubbie is also asking what we should be legally doing with any dead chickens?


If it is about education then great, its always good to learn