[SallyintNorth]

An ex-sheepkeeper on Ravelry was talking about having been advised against using a Charollais tup on Gotland ewes,

I did ask the gotland head honcho if he thought it would be a good cross. He was horrified, said they’d be too big for the fine boned gotlands and I’d be asking for trouble

My gut reaction was that, although a full-grown Charollais tup is perhaps too large to be allowed to mount a Gotland ewe, it would be fine to use a Charollais tup lamb, as the resultant lambs should be small, slippery and easy lambing. 

Comments, anyone?

[Anke]

I was advised NOT to use a texel tup on Gotland ewes, because of their smaller pelvis, but I think with the general proviso that tup should not be too broad shouldered it would actually be ok. From that point of view a Charrolais should actually be better? After all we use them on Shetland ewes, and they are smaller than Gotlands?
 
My Gotlands (which actually have some texel in them) go to the Shetland tup, as I am keener on the wool from them. And the carcasses are big enough for our own consumption and I would only get pennies for them at the mart...

[SallyintNorth]

Ah, interesting input, Anke. 

Shetlands have the widest pelvis of any sheep, I think, so will lamb a Texel cross lamb more readily than a Swaledale or Blackie!   

If the Gotlands have a narrow pelvis, then caution is definitely advised.  Note that you can't tell pelvis width from the size of the animal.  (Same applies in cattle - Jerseys have the widest pelvis, and are one of the smallest cows.)

With our Texels, it's more the hips / backends that stick.  Very close, fine ("thin") "skin" (fleece) really helps - much less friction.    That's one of the things that is good about the Charollais - very fine skin, verging on bald - makes them very slippery and easy-lambed.  But also makes them 'soft' and not hardy to wet cold weather, so we (a) select a tup with a woolly head (generally means more fleece on the lambs) and (b) keep the little plastic macs at the ready, and coat any young Charollais lambs if it's going to be wet - or even bring them indoors through any really bad weather.

Charollais tups vary, same as any other breed.  Our boys are carefully selected to suit our climate and flock.

We specifically select our tups - of all breeds - with narrower shoulders - no-one pays you a bonus for wide shoulders.  Big gigots, though, are worth £££.

[SteveHants]

How big is a grown Gotland in KGs approximateley?

[colliewoman]

Watching this with interest as I shall soon be the proud owner of a certain Gotland ram. I know it's a question about ewes, but still had the word 'Gotland' in it


I feel a new obsession coming on.
I only read recently about just how milky Gotland ewes are, makes sense now how the lambs from my Shetland x Gotland ewes grew obscenely fast. Even drew comment from the commercial boys!
I am so looking forward to the fleeces 

[Anke]

I am so looking forward to the fleeces 

My Gotland fleeeces this year are all felted on the sheep, as I didn't clip them in Sept/Oct - it was just too wet... Should still be able to do some peg-looming with them though.

[Anke]

Ah, interesting input, Anke. 

Shetlands have the widest pelvis of any sheep, I think, so will lamb a Texel cross lamb more readily than a Swaledale or Blackie!   

If the Gotlands have a narrow pelvis, then caution is definitely advised.  Note that you can't tell pelvis width from the size of the animal.  (Same applies in cattle - Jerseys have the widest pelvis, and are one of the smallest cows.)

With our Texels, it's more the hips / backends that stick.  Very close, fine ("thin") "skin" (fleece) really helps - much less friction.    That's one of the things that is good about the Charollais - very fine skin, verging on bald - makes them very slippery and easy-lambed.  But also makes them 'soft' and not hardy to wet cold weather, so we (a) select a tup with a woolly head (generally means more fleece on the lambs) and (b) keep the little plastic macs at the ready, and coat any young Charollais lambs if it's going to be wet - or even bring them indoors through any really bad weather.

Charollais tups vary, same as any other breed.  Our boys are carefully selected to suit our climate and flock.

We specifically select our tups - of all breeds - with narrower shoulders - no-one pays you a bonus for wide shoulders.  Big gigots, though, are worth £££.

Given the low numbers of Gotlands kept in Britain I think not much crossing to terminal sires has been done, as most will be kept more for their fleeces by small-scale breeders and therefore bred pure?
 
I am also trying to breed mine to be a bit "hardier" by using the Shetland boy.... plus the fleeces should  be lovely
 
 
 
 

[colliewoman]

 
I am also trying to breed mine to be a bit "hardier" by using the Shetland boy.... plus the fleeces should  be lovely

If they are the same as using a Gotland tup on a Shetland ewe, you are in for a real treat!
Mine were beautiful!

[woollyval]

Gotlands are not small sheep ......I had some with some Wensleydales and were about the same height. Finer boned but cannot see a problem with a charolais ram....after all they have small shoulders and are often used for easy lambing!

[SallyintNorth]

That was my thinking, woollyval, but the Raveller's experiences and knowledge have certainly made me question the idea of using Charollais ram on a Gotland ewe.

Clearly, although not a small sheep, the Gotland's pelvis is narrow - you can read the Raveller's post here; you'll see she says the Gotland isn't quite as narrow inside as a goat, kidding which she describes as 'like trying to help a sausage machine give birth to a coat hanger '

[Remy]

Hmm I was thinking along the same lines, now having five Gotland ewes and having lost my Gotland ram, but my two other rams are Zwartbles and Ryeland, the Zwartbles being a very big tall ram and the Ryeland very chunky who produces large lambs.  Not sure either would do?! 

[Azzdodd]

I have a friend who uses a charolias on soay & Shetlands an there ain't many smaller than soay! His ewes lamb easy he only uses ram lambs though as the ovious reason there too heavy

[SallyintNorth]

A case in point, Azzdodd - Shetlands and Soays have a very wide pelvis, so can lamb a Charollais cross lamb, but we seem to be being told that the Gotland has a very narrow pelvis and would struggle to produce a Charollais cross lamb.

[Dougal]

Of all the commercial breedsthe charolais will be the best to use. They are narrow shouldered small boned lambs. They are often the breed of choice for putting over ewe lambs because of the ease of lambing. If the gotlands are not first timers i'd have no worries. Biggest worry is char lambs can be very bare at birth so will need to be inside lambing or late spring because hypothermia can be a really challenge to them even if they have full bellies.