[Justkat]

Hi everyone  Newbie from Cumbria here!

I am interested in getting some sheep and was wondering what people would recommend for a beginner. The idea is to buy some ewes with lambs at foot this year, rear the lambs for slaughter but keep the meat ourselves to sell to family and friends. We have a very helpful farmer down the road who has told me 'he knows a man' who I can buy some herdwicks from. He said I need to make sure I don't buy sheep that are "ratchers" - not sure if this is just a west cumbrian term but he explained that basically a ratcher is a sheep which is an escape artist. Apparantly, this man he knows sells sheep which aren't ratchers so I presume that means he handles them, trains them to the bucket etc but I need to find out more about it.

Anyway...from what I've been reading mainly on this forum it has become apparant to me that perhaps Herdwicks aren't the best sheep for a beginner to start off with. What do you all think? Ideally what I'm after is a breed that is very hardy, could survive happily in a field which doesnt have a purpose built shelter, is easy to handle for worming etc (I'm a small but strong woman and would like to be able to do most things on my own), and that need little intervention during lambing. It would also be advantageous money-wise to have a breed with a good lambing rate (not sure if this is the correct term). Also above all, they need to produce good meat as that is the main reason for keeping them.

I'm still getting to grips with all the sheepy terminology so apologise if some of the phrases I've used sound a bit odd! I've got tons of questions but that should do for now, I'd love to hear what you experienced bunch think!

TIA 
Kat

[Marches Farmer]

Suggestions:  get Tim Tyne's book on keeping sheep and go on a course (plenty advertised in Country Smallholding). I think Kate and Jim Beavan (who were the first Lambing Live farm) do one. My son did a shearing course there with Jim last year and it was excellent.

Generally speaking the downland sheep are hardy, docile and easily trained to the bucket.  You're welcome to come and have a look at my Southdowns if you're passing through Herefordshire!  We also keep Badger Face but they're a mountain breed and wouldn't recommend them to a beginner - super breed but great jumpers!

[Yeoman]

Hi Kat, I'll leave any breed advice to those of the forum with lots of experience.
 
That said, I may be able to assist with the correct term for "good lambing rate" - the word is "fecundity".  I kid you not.  Be careful with using it in front of children as you could find yourself answering lots of questions!
 
Not specific to ewes but an absolutely fab word none the less!
 
Good luck with your new venture.
 
 

[lachlanandmarcus]

Herdwicks wouldn't be my idea of a starter breed - big to handle and as a breed renowned for escaping/wildness. Like any breed that may not be the case if you train them from lambs but I would go for something smaller and tamer! Nb most primitive breeds like Shetland, Hebridean etc will be fine overwintering on open field but will need hay and mineral lick. Or get a down land breed which would be ready for slaughter in the same year they are born.

[Foobar]

Get a breed that matches your locality.  If there are lots of folks around your area with Herdwicks then get those, they are as hardy as can be.  They will be ideal for your local environment and weather conditions, and you will be able to call on the local knowledge of the breed too.
Herdwicks aren't that big really, I would go for it!   Size isn't really an issue once you've got the hang of handling them, it's all about technique.
You will be able to get the lambs tame without a problem, so try to pick ewes that don't run a mile when you approach them.  If yer'man knows a man who has some that aren't escape artists then go with that.
And if you need a more meatier lamb, then next year you can buy a meat breed terminal sire and put him to your Herdwick ewes.

[Rosemary]

Remember though, there's a difference between keeping a breed like the Herdwick on open hill and keeping them in small paddocks - which are not their natural environment. Hill sheep have miles to roam over so access to a surprising amount of fodder plus loads of places to shelter.

If you are keeping 5 sheep to the acre rather than 5 acres per sheep, they will still probably need hay over winter. So t will depend on your land in terms of quantity and quality what is the best breed.

I don't know how prolific Herdwicks are and it will be influenced by management factors, but Blackies tend to produce single lambs (which is what most hill farmers want - a good big single) but will produce more if kept on easier ground.

I would also recommend Tim Tyne's book - which I am rereading again

[Justkat]

Thanks everyone, lots of sound advice!

I have ordered Tim Tynes book, was hoping it would arrive in the post today but no such luck. Yeoman - thanks for that, now I can sound all technical when I speak to the locals 

We do have lots of Herdwicks nearby so that is one of the attractions of that breed, we are also friendly with another farmer over the valley from us who has lots of Herdwicks so he could be a valuable resource in terms of getting new tups etc.

I am still trying to work out costs etc, and I'm not entirely sure what price I could sell the meat for. I understand Herdies produce smaller carcasses unless you keep them for longer, what are the pro's/con's of this? I presume it ends up costing slightly more as you have to feed them over winter, but in return you get more meat...is the meat better or worse for being allowed to mature or is it the same just more of it?

I have so many garbled questions floating around in my head I'm struggling to write them down in coherent sentences!

Could somebody explain the terminal sire thing to me? My simple brain is finding it hard to understand!

[Foobar]

Terminal sire = a ram that you use only for producing larger meatier lambs, with more meat on them than you would get if you bred with the same breed ram as you have ewe.  The lambs would be destined for eating rather than keeping for breeding.

[Justkat]

Terminal sire = a ram that you use only for producing larger meatier lambs, with more meat on them than you would get if you bred with the same breed ram as you have ewe.  The lambs would be destined for eating rather than keeping for breeding.

Ahhh I see, thanks for that simple explanation

[Womble]

"fecundity"

Bless you! 

[Fleecewife]

Hi Kat, I'll leave any breed advice to those of the forum with lots of experience.
 
That said, I may be able to assist with the correct term for "good lambing rate" - the word is "fecundity".  I kid you not.  Be careful with using it in front of children as you could find yourself answering lots of questions!
 
Not specific to ewes but an absolutely fab word none the less!
 
Good luck with your new venture.

We use 'prolificacy' which doesn't sound so rude but is more difficult to say 
 
For sheep breeds which have a slower rate of maturing, the meat will be different - better in most people's opinion.  It depends though on what you like - tender baby lamb or a fine grained more flavoursome meat.
Maybe you could buy a 16 month carcase from one of your Herdy-breeding neighbours and see if you like the taste. 
 
Other breeds to consider are the primitives - the carcase is also small but matures more slowly. Our Hebs weigh in at about 15-22kgs deadweight at 16 months.   Carlisle has it's own Rare Breeds sale so you have a wide choice on your doorstep.  Primitives have a good pelvis width to weight ratio so are easy lambers to a commercial terminal sire - you get the carcase size you are looking for but the hardiness, thriftiness etc of the Primitive dams.  Breeds such as Shetland, Hebridean, Manx have a fair prolificacy at about 160-170% ie about 2/3rds of your ewes will twin, the rest will have singles, with the occasional triplets if your ground is lush.
 
Some people say that the Primitives are difficult to manage, being a bit flighty, but we haven't found that (except Soay sometimes  ) especially Shetlands which are very tame, can be readily trained to the halter, and have one of the best British fleeces around to add a tiny bit to your income (fleece for craft or tanned skins)

[Castle Farm]

This question has been asked many times.

Get whatever breed your neighbour has.

[thenovice]

Get a breed you like the look of, if you are pleased when you look at them, then they could be the breed for you.

[SteveHants]

This question has been asked many times.

Get whatever breed your neighbour has.

This, but with the added caveat - unless your neighbour has something very unusual for the area.

[Womble]

Or unless your neighbour keeps the ugliest sheep you've ever seen, which sound as though they're throwing up when they baaa!