[shropshire_blue]

Well, here's my latest dilemma: Large single lamb born this afternoon around 2pm. Wasn't coming out by itself, so I helped. Navel looked different to the rest I've seen - it's was about the width of my finger, and about as long. Dark red in colour with white bit spiralling round it.  Rang vet, he said if it pushes back in that's bad, if not, give it a good iodine dunking and don't worry.  It didn't push back in.


It wasn't getting up to suckle, but otherwise looked strong, and he sucked my finger if I put it in his mouth. Tried holding him onto the ewe, but his neck is stiff and he can't bear weight on his front legs and it didn't work.  Tubed him colostrum.  Obviously hasn't got up or suckled, but is very active - he has worn a 'straw angel' from where he's been kicking his legs (if you can see what I mean?).  I've tried holding him up on his feet, but he just topples forwards.


I really don't think he's going to make it, but I just don't know whether it's better to knock him on the head or keep tubing him until it's really obvious he's not going to stand, but then it'll be even harder to send him on...


I'm beating myself up about if I've caused all this by helping him out, or if it's more deformity - he has stiff neck and spine, solid ball on end of tail, and can't stand. I'm getting a bit dejected with so many dead or dying on me and can't look at this objectively at the moment.


Honest opinions please...

[raygezer]

Hi there i am sorry to hete about your lamb like you have said the longer you leave it the harder it will be to let it go you could become to attached to it.for what its worth my ewrs are due to lamb in 4 wks and this is the first time in three years im worrid about lambing afyer hearing about the problems others are having.anyway you will do the rite thing im sure.

[Anke]

Conenital swayback, or daft lamb disease? Or possibly even some result of Schmallenberg?
 
I have had lambs that have their front legs/knuckles bent and they had to be held on for a few days, but all got better . Yours doesn't sound good.

[ZaktheLad]

If he is a very large lamb it could perhaps be just the way he was laid inside the ewe.  If he is otherwise strong, I would give him a bit more time and keep holding him up to the ewe to suckle by getting someone to hold the ewe and you hold the lamb on your lap whilst kneeling on the ground at the side of the ewe. This enables you to have both hands free to hold the teat in the lambs mouth and use the other hand to keep the lambs head in place by the ewes tear.  Why not pop him along to the vet and see what they think?  Sorry to hear you are having such problems - it's horrible when everything seems to go wrong and very distressing when you have cases such as this lamb.   

[SallyintNorth]

It doesn't sound like swayback - in swayback the spine is floppy rather than stiff.

We get one or two each year are born with stiff necks and have to be helped to feed, or bottle fed, for a few days.  Sometimes it takes up to a week for them to be able to hold their heads normally but they usually find a way to suckle very quickly.  However this is not generally accompanied by being unable to stand.

As Anke says, we get a few some years born with their knuckles turned under - these come right when they get out in some sunshine

The solid ball at the end of the tail sounds odd.  If you've had other Schmallenberg lambs, does this feel like SMV to you?  I haven't seen any so can't proffer an opinion.

My rule of thumb with lambs that are 'a bit odd' is to help them if they'll help themselves - if they're putting up a fight to be alive, I'll help them achieve it.  If they are resisting feeding and otherwise giving the impression of preferring to be dead, I will allow them to drift away.

As to if he lives but doesn't improve - I'd set a deadline, a week or 10 days say, and if his physical deformities seem no better by then, then pts.  We take lambs that are too large or difficult to pts for a one-way trip to the vet, but our vet is just in our local town so it's not out of our way to do that.

[jaykay]

I've had lambs that have struggled to stand for a while but who have made it in the end, with plenty of help to stand for feeding. Dad had dreadful problems last year but all bar one of his made it.

This one sounds like he's lively, so if you can manage it, I'd hold him up to feed until he can manage it himself - and I think he will probably work out a way, stiff neck or not.

Fingers crossed, for him and for you 

[Rosemary]

He may just have been cramped inside the ewe if he's a big chap.

I'd give him a chance, especially since he seems to be making an effort.

[shropshire_blue]

Thanks for all the replies.  You lot should open a second website - The Accidental Counsellor.


Having looked at the lamb again and had a good feel of it's spine I'm pretty sure it's something to do with Schmallenhell.  The spine seems twisted, and this is most obvious at the base of the tail.  The fleshy bit underneath spirals right round and is on top at it's end.  When I hold the lamb on it's feet, the head always drops to the left with the chin pointing upward.  I've asked a local sheep farmer to come and have a look as I feel a bit out of my depth with these marginal cases...


Re feeding I've tried again holding him onto the ewe, and squirting a bit into his mouth to get him going, but he's having none of it. Grrr.

[Dogwalker]

A local farmer friend has had schmallenberg in his early lambers and said some had their heads twisted back so couldn't feed but sucked his finger well, were otherwise big/strong lambs.  Horrible disease.

[Marches Farmer]

I think one of the problems we're getting with SBV is lack of information.  Last year the description of deformities was very specific.  We had a deformed lamb for the first time ever (looked fine except for nothing in its eye sockets, born dead), took it to the AHVLA and was told it tested negative.  Heard of a couple of neighbours who had similar, very unusual, deformities in their lambs.  Now I'm suspecting it probably was SBV.   The National Sheep Association is gathering information this year - as SBV isn't a notifiable disease DEFRA's kept its head below the parapet, although I've heard on the grapevine it's asked farm vets not to take leave during the main lambing and calving period.

[shropshire_blue]

A local farmer friend has had schmallenberg in his early lambers and said some had their heads twisted back so couldn't feed but sucked his finger well, were otherwise big/strong lambs.  Horrible disease.

Sound exactly like this one. Agreed - horrible!

[feldar]

He could be SBV but we had some last spring with various deformities and they did go on to kill in the end. I would hold off knocking on the head just yet, he may just need some time to get strong enough to stand, i've tubed for a couple of days until they are strong.
We had stiff and humpy backed lambs that grew last year. Does he flop forward or does he spread himself legs outwards?
If he spreads but is strong and trying to get up. A trick i used was to  make some supports around his legs with an old pair of tights and some gamgee or padding aound the joints. you wrap his legs with the gamgee and then make a hobble with the tights so the legs are supported by each other but there is still a gap between the front legs, When he's strong enough in a day or two take it all off but check he doesn't spread again.
If he flops forward keep massaging his legs to stimulate the correct formation of the joints and keep putting him onto the ewe to get the idea of sucking.
Is his neck so stiff it wont move at all or fixed in one position? if that is so, i would suggest SBV is the cause.
Sorry it's a bit of an essay but sometimes these lambs are worth a try if only to recoup the cost of feeding the ewe.

[Marches Farmer]

I found grey foam pipe lagging does a good job at supporting joints - soft enough not to chafe and can be held in place by a piece of gaffer tape.

[Hillview Farm]

I had a problem with a VERY LARGE calf on a first time calver. Once we got him out, He fed well etc but couldn't stand for a long period. His legs didn't work and his neck was bent round, he had a massive swollen eye. It was just that he had limited space and was twisted in the womb hence the twisted neck.

Hang in there! Please dont give up untill he does and get the vet to have a look!

[Anke]

How's the wee one? Making it?