[fifixx]

Anke - yes, my kids did have cocci in June too - so possibly weakened immune system a bit.

[goosepimple]

I think I'm missing something - if you can get HeptavacP over the counter, why would it be that anyone would use Lambivac and Ovipast?  (sorry serious question, not meant to sound sarcastic).

[Anke]

I think I'm missing something - if you can get HeptavacP over the counter, why would it be that anyone would use Lambivac and Ovipast?  (sorry serious question, not meant to sound sarcastic).

Can anyone confirm with with some degree of knowledge how often to vaccinate goats? I asked my vet when I ordered the lamivac and he was adamant I only had to do it annually.

Sheep and goats don't produce the same immune response to clostridial vaccines. Sheep seem to do very well with the 7 +1 vaccines, however goats don't. This is from "evidence from the field" (I am quoting John Matthews, Diseases of the goat", 3rd edition, 2009). The 4+1 vaccines (like Lambivac) are therefore recommended for goats, as opposed to the 7+1 for sheep (like Heptavac p+). J Matthews also states that: "..the use of combined clostridial and pasteurella vaccines is NOT recommended"
 
Also: "The persistence of the response to vaccination is shorter in duration in goats than in sheep, so it is necessary to shorten the interval between booster vaccinations and the vaccinations every 6 months, or even more frequently in problem herds..."
 
So that means the following:
 
Lambivac (clostridial diseases - lamb diysentry, struck, pulpey kidney (enterotoxaemia) and tetanus) initial dose 2ml twice, 4 to 6 weeks apart, injected under the skin, then a 6 monthly booster (2ml dose under the skin) with one of them 3 - 4 weeks before kidding. Any adult goats coming onto the holding where you are not sure of their vaccination status should have the initial course as soon as they arrive. If close to kidding give it so that the second dose is 3 weeks before kidding. If not enough time, just do the course for the adult and initial course for the kids early at 3 - 4 weeks.
Kids that have got a good amount of colostrum from a vaccinated/boostered nanny should have the double initial course starting at 8 weeks.
 
Pasteurella - you can either use Pastobov (very expensive) or Ovipast (same price category as Lambivac). Primary course is again 2ml twice 3 -4 weeks apart. Can be given at the same time as Lambivac but at a different iste, however I prefer to leave a week in between giving Lambivac and Ovipast. The booster for pasteurella is stated as "annually", again I think it is nībest to make sure it coincides with 3 weeks before kidding to transfer some immunity to the kids. They should then also get the normal initialdouble dose after about 8 to 10 weeks of age.
 
All my knowledge comes from reading John Matthews and talking to my vet and other goatkeepers. This is the first year I have vaccinated against pasteurella, after hearing about goats (actually adults!) dying from it. If you speak to your vet I really think the John Matthews book should be highly recommended to them. I also remember reading that vets can can ask the "Goat Veterinary Society" for advice on specific issues. Unfortunately often vets treat goats either the same as sheep or as a mini-cow - but they aren't either of them!!!
 
Aplogies for any spelliing mistakes/typos -but it's Sunday night and i had to finish the bottle of Red that was needed for the cooking...plus listening to my daughter's fiddle practice at the same time...
 
 
 
 

[Lesley Silvester]

So sorry to hear about your goat, Fifixx.      I don't vaccinate my goats at all because the vet said there's no need to as they aren't on pasture.  What do others think?

[ScotsGirl]

Brilliant reply Anke, just gotta print off and put in my file otherwise I will be asking again later!! I have just done mine approx 5 weeks before kidding as that was what the previous owner said. They were horrendously high with cocci after I bought them but new worm count shows clear on worms and only small amount of cocci so hoping they will be fine.

[ballingall]

I'm not going to say anything to contradict Anke's post, because she is right in what she says.


However, I am going to also point out that many goatkeepers have (and do) use HeptavacP, including ourselves. I also know people, who are switching back to HeptavacP on the recommendation of their own vet and based on the results they have got from Lambivac.


My personal view is, use whichever one suits you best, I'm not going to tell you which one to use, I believe in telling people the options and letting them make up your minds.


One other key thing to point out, is that using any of these vaccines, offers your goats some protection. BUT, it does not gaurantee that you will protect all of your animals 100%. As Anke said, there have been losses this year, and other years of animals which have been vaccinated- with either method.


Beth

[goosepimple]

Thank you both Anke and Beth, both great knowledge and very much appreciated by so many of us. 
 
We were HepP'ing our sheep this year and did the goats at the same time and they were all well and continue to be so.  We have had their feceas checked recently too and given the all clear.  I feel that due to this I will continue with the HepP until such time as there becomes a problem and then I will change, seems logical if ok now.
 
Think I will buy that book though Anke, after this year I don't think anyone can be too careful.  Many thanks - apologies Fifixx, don't mean to hijack your post 

[ScotsGirl]

A bit annoying as I had a bottle of Heptavac P which would have done all sheep and goats instead of buying Lamivac also for just 6! Oh well, will know for next year.

[wytsend]

Personally I have always used HeptovacP...........as far as I know, this is the only vaccine thatcan be used as a prophylactic.   
When a goat has had a trauma of any pain kind, they are very prone to pneumonia (pasteurella effectively).    I was given the advice many years ago that when such an event happens,  give a double dose of Heptovac P and the animal will have as much help as is possible to give. 
The principle being that although there is immunity in the animals system, by virtue of  trauma, shock etc, that immunity is challenged so help is needed.  I have followed this advice and only on one occasion, when I was unable to give the dose, have not lost a goat.
I tend to vaccinate twice a year to maintain as high aprotection as possible.

[plumseverywhere]

Wytsend, just out of interest - and because my brain doesn't function too well (!) - when you say to give a double dose of Hep P after trauma, that is for goats that are already boostered on their annual/6 monthly dose?

[Anke]

I can only recommend what the CURRENT thinking and knowlegde is on vaccinating goats. John Matthews is THE leading goat vet in the UK, his book has recently (2009) been updated and he and his wife breed one of the top herds of British Saanens/Saanens in the country.
 
His advcie is:
 
1) Do NOT use Heptavac P+ on goats, the combination of clostidrial and pasteurella vaccine doesn't work.
 
2) Annual boostering for clostridial diseases is NOT enough for goats, as I have found out in case of possibly weakened immune systems it would be better to give an additional booster BEFORE 6 months.
 
Wytsend - years ago it may have been good advice to use Heptavac, but times(and science) move on and so does research. If in the case of trauma a bostering of the immune system is necessary against pasteurella, then a 2ml shot of Ovipast would provide much better protection. It is unlikely that boostering against clostiridial diseases would be needed in that case and you would just overload the goat's immune system.
 
 
 
 

[plumseverywhere]

Anke, because I've been using HeptavacP on 2 of mine, am I able to give them Lamivac now or do I have to wait until the heptavacP would have expired? for switching over I mean.

[jinglejoys]

I think the reason people don't use Lambivac is cos you can't get hold of the darn stuff....not round here.I've tried Countrycrap stores and even went over to droitwich to the last real farm store in the area who usually have everything, with no luck.Guess I'll have to ask Keith at Vale Stores he can usually get anything

[Dogwalker]

Can't you order it through your vet or online?

[plumseverywhere]

I had to get it through the Vet jinglejoys - but if Keith is able to get it, do let me know!!