[WarescotFarm]

Hi Folks! 

Thinking of buying a trailer to transport piggies to slaughter and the horse and goat to kids parties.
I thought it was as simple as buy a trailer, attach it, stick animals in, drive...
However, down the pub I hear of trailer licences, licences to move animals etc...

HELP! Does anyone know much about this? I googled it and nothing seemed to quite fit my situation.
I want to do children's parties with the horse and goat and nothing seems to fit this type of event ?!?!

Any advice REALLY appreciated

Thanks

[hughesy]

Questions you need to ask yourself. When did you pass your test? If it was after 1997 you need to take another test to tow large trailers. Also what kind of vehicle do you intend to use? Not all are capable of towing horse boxes etc.

[WarescotFarm]

I passed in 1996, I was just looking at that as it happens.
We will have an old land rover (very old) and just need a small trailer for a mini falabella
So if 1996 I can drive anything? If so Whey Hey!! 

And do I need a licence to drive a horse somewhere? Like a livestock movement licence or anything?

[smiley bucket]

The party venue will need a CPH number if you are taking a goat and you'll all have to do movement licences.  Great fun! 
Plenty places to learn how to tow and very importantly, reverse, a trailer.  I'm not sure how many miles you are allowed to travel livestock without a licence, i seem to think around the mid forties, but then that's my age and my memory is not what it used to be.  Check with Animal Health or DEFRA maybe?
Lovely idea though taking animals to kids, some lucky kids will really benefit from hands on, best of luck with it

[Anke]

Yes I think you wil struggle to take a goat (even a pygmy counts as a farm animal/livestock) and as such she will need a movement licence form completed every time she goes off her home farm. And yes every venue she goes to will need a CPH number.
Interesting idea thoughh... although I would feel sorry for the parents who afterwards have to explain to their excited offspring that they really cannot have a mini-horse and goat too....

[WarescotFarm]

I need to call DEFRA again because when I spoke to them about taking the goat to a stables while we were on holiday they said she didn't need a licence if moved within the same county. And when she was moved to Kent (when stolen) they could do nothing about it.
It seems to go against the whole point of having CPH numbers so I will call them again
Also found out I need a competence certificate to move animals safely so need to do that
Thanks everyone

[lachlanandmarcus]

You can drive up to 7.5t lorry if you passed test pre 1997 so no issues there.
The landy is likely to be able to pull a trailer with one horse or two ponies in it or some goats/pigs. For eg an Ifor Williams 510 horse trailer weighs about 900kg-1000kg empty, so add the animals weights and then check against your Landrover model via Google or any of the towing forums online. My Landy can do 3500kg but it is a long wheelbase 110, so it might be less for short wheel base 90s
You actually only need a competence certificate if you are transporting the animals as part of an economic activity (ie business). The 65km (30 mile odd limit) also applies only to businesses, for them over this distance and under 8 hour journey a Short Journey Transporter licence would be needed, with a Long Journey Transporter licence needed for journeys over 8 hours.
Of course, in the event of a check it would be for you to prove that it was not a business, so any aspect at all of money changing hands would make it worthwhile to get a competence certificate and (if needed) licencing. And of course with or without any certs, everyone is obliged to know and follow the guidelines for assuring livestock welfare in transit.
Link here to the relevant info
https://www.gov.uk/farm-animal-welfare-during-transportation
You will always need to do full movement documentation for any livestock (not including horses, tho their passport must travel with them), except for certain limited pre agreed exceptions.
There are also standstills triggered by movements to consider (tho breeding rams are excluded), as are movements direct to slaughter.
It is a lot simpler to ship a couple of ponies around with their passports than the livestock, paperwork wise! (NB nominal prize money at a show or petrol contributions have been adjudged not to count as making you a business)

[bazzais]

It would be very unlikely if you got stopped by a copper who knew the law.

[hughesy]

It would be very unlikely if you got stopped by a copper who knew the law.

That is true indeed. I doubt if any of them would have a clue. However if you're doing something you shouldn't be and an accident happens your insurance company will be very pleased as they will be able to keep their money instead of paying out to you.

[WarescotFarm]

"make it worthwhile to get a competence certificate and (if needed) licencing"
It is a business so I think I will need to do this, what do you mean by 'licencing' just checking I am not missing something.
Have arranged with DEFRA that I will be able to move the goat if no other livestock are on the premises.

Does anyone know if a performance licence is needed for stroking animals? I have someone getting back to me in a few days about it from gov but just wondering if any pros out there had any clues.

[cleopatra]

we use a horse trailer for everything but we know that is illegal as  it has no side gates for the pigs and especially cattle, when it comes time to move our older bull, im going to have to hire (from where i dont know) or buy a cattle trailer.
putting a pony in a livestock trailer recently, it was very noisy and clattery, but luckily enough he was short enough not to need the height of a pony trailer.
really you need both as pony trailers dont have the protection of solid partitions required if transporting ponies and goats together.

[Lesley Silvester]

The party venue will need a CPH number if you are taking a goat

I didn't know that and a couple of times have taken a goat into schools to do a milking demonstration.  The children love to watch and then, with four brushes and a child at each corner, the goat enjoys a good grooming.

[cleopatra]

The party venue will need a CPH number if you are taking a goat

I didn't know that and a couple of times have taken a goat into schools to do a milking demonstration.  The children love to watch and then, with four brushes and a child at each corner, the goat enjoys a good grooming.

they can get a temporary one from animal health, but hey have to apply for it themselves.
we got round this with animal health approval by keeping all animals in the trailer and letting the kids come to the trailer. not quite the same but it worked. no movement license required as its classed as a "ride out".

[lachlanandmarcus]

"make it worthwhile to get a competence certificate and (if needed) licencing"
It is a business so I think I will need to do this, what do you mean by 'licencing' just checking I am not missing something.
Have arranged with DEFRA that I will be able to move the goat if no other livestock are on the premises.

Does anyone know if a performance licence is needed for stroking animals? I have someone getting back to me in a few days about it from gov but just wondering if any pros out there had any clues.

 

The licence is the bit I referred to about the over 65km under 8 hours transporters licence, and the over 8 hours one.

[WarescotFarm]

Ah thanks
To move a goat regularly you can get an annual disapplying licence and fill in an AML1 form each time, you just need to make sure the premises you are going to has no livestock