[SallyintNorth]

Shetland Moorit, Castlemilk Moorit (horned, the most elegant sheep you can find ), Manx Loaghtan (can be 4-horned) - all lovely, all can be tamed, all should cope with a Southdown tup, although I have to say mine are all getting a Shetland tup for their first lambs (tupping as shearlings) and I'll try a Southdown or similar later on.

A relative works where they have 4 Zwartbles as pet lawnmowers, they are not only tame they are trained to pull a carriage!   Pause the video on this page at 1:08 - 1:10 if you don't believe me!

Supposedly the Zwartbles fleece is black, but the sun bleaches it to dark brown - much as it does Hebrideans, I think?

[Foobar]

[size=78%]fleece is black, but the sun bleaches it to dark brown[/size]

Ditto for Black Welsh Mountain, bleaches to a copper tone.  Would you prefer a colouring changing sheep? - black or brown depending on the season

[jaykay]

Yes, the Shetlands change colour too, the Warm Blacks to a dark brown and the Moorits to a sort of surf-bum blonde 

[Fleecewife]

<< Supposedly the Zwartbles fleece is black, but the sun bleaches it to dark brown - much as it does Hebrideans, I think?>>
 
It's really just the tips which are bleached brown - deep in the fleece it's still black and after shearing you have a black sheep not a brown.
 
The situation with Hebs is apparently different.   Many also have weathered wool tips, but in addition there is thought to be a brown gene, so there are fairly black Hebs (which are plain-chocolate brown when you look closely) and there are much browner Hebs.  The brown type are frowned on by the showing fraternity, so most people pretend they don't have any.   I have some 
The tendency to bleach also seems to be genetic as some families do it and some don't.
With Hebs there is also a 'silver' type, which is a bit like the body markings of a katmoget Shetland ie black face, belly, tail and chest, but with a silvered 'rug' thrown over its back.  Again frowned on by the showing fraternity but visible in the photo of the first known flock of Hebs, so an ancient characteristic - nothing to do with choosing a brown sheep 

[Pedwardine]

Ah yes, I didn't really consider the rarity aspect of the brown Wensleydales, just remembered a friend showing me the brown Wensleydale fleece she was almost wetting herself with excitement over  . She'd waited quite a while for it. It WAS stunning. I love how the black sheep get all coppery at the fleece tips. We've got a black Shetland, Rosie, here to put our black Gotland ram to whilst her mojo is working. It took a while for her mojo to come to the fore. I thought she'd left it behind at her owners, but, the last raddle colour went on last week and she has a gloriously red arse to go with her black fleece with coppery overtones. Quite a fetching look actually 

[zwartbles]

Here we have before and after!! Super fleece with excellent crimp.

[woollyval]

Yes, you can get coloured Wensleydales, but we're really talking hens teeth there. Beautiful, enormous and as rare as.....an honest politician 

Not that rare....several years ago i bought a whole group of them off a local farmer! He had bought them not knowing what on earth they were

[SallyintNorth]

Talking sun-faded...  my Castlemilk Moorits look golden toffee-coloured; when you clip them it's a rich deep chocolate cake brown underneath.  Most of my wee clip is stored in the dark but I've had a chunk of fleece lying about in daylight just to see... and it is undoubtedly fading.  The tips are still lighter than the body, but the body is now coffee-with-just-a-splash-of-milk rather than rich deep chocolate cake brown.

So my question is... the other sheep who get the sunbleached tips - does the spun yarn fade over time, do your jumpers get lighter in colour as they're worn?

[Fleecewife]

<<So my question is... the other sheep who get the sunbleached tips - does the spun yarn fade over time, do your jumpers get lighter in colour as they're worn?>>
 
Now there's a question     You'll have to spin and knit one Sally, then check it every year for fading.   I think it may well depend on if you wear it outside in the sun, or under a coat or always indoors...............most fading on the sheep takes place in the summer, when we don't tend to wear jumpers.
 
I was told when my children were babies not to hang their tiny white woolly cardigans on the line as they would turn yellow - which they did.  I wonder if that is the same thing.  Do white sheep go yellow in the sun?

[Bionic]

The brown type are frowned on by the showing fraternity, so most people pretend they don't have any.   I have some 

Fleecewife you sound like a bit of a rebel 
Sally

[Fleecewife]

The brown type are frowned on by the showing fraternity, so most people pretend they don't have any.   I have some 

Fleecewife you sound like a bit of a rebel 
Sally

 

[Blacksheep]

Interesting re the brown type of Hebridean, I always thought that they were more black/grey compared to Zwartbles.  Is it right that if you breed a heb to a white sheep then the progeny will be white? If so definately different colour genetics going on as with Zs you always get a brown sheep with the first cross.

[jaykay]

Certainly with Shetlands, white 'covers' all other colour combinations.

[Remy]

If so definately different colour genetics going on as with Zs you always get a brown sheep with the first cross.

Fascinating thing genetics - does it make a difference if it's the ewe or the ram who is the Zwartbles?  I've bred my Zwartbles ram for the first time this year to a few white commercials as well as Zwartbles ewes, I'm looking forward to seeing what comes out.  So long as they are healthy and don't die I'm not bothered!


Interestingly I have a brown Ryeland ram whose lambs are always white, he is bred with Charollais, Welsh mules and cross breeds.  The lambs are occasionally born with a few brown spots but these disappear once they grow.

[Remy]

Supposedly the Zwartbles fleece is black, but the sun bleaches it to dark brown - much as it does Hebrideans, I think?

The fleece of a Zwartbles must be like some 'black' horses who have the fading black gene as opposed to nonfading.  I have Dales ponies who tend to go brownish in the summer, but there are some who stay pure black.  I was told that the ones who fade have a 'fading black' gene, these are affected by sun/weather conditions whereas the pure (nonfading) blacks aren't and stay jet black.