[seraphina]

Hi, my first post here in this forum.  I live in a very rural area, large garden and a camelid stud next door.  Farm animals around.  I've had mouse problems in the past, so did the previous owner over many years.  I've controlled them with poisoned wheat in the loft and sometimes outside the house.  I also have a couple of electronic repellents.  In the last few weeks I have noticed large rats in the garden possibly attracted by the compost (I'll have to deal with that issue in due course) and from the noise, considerable mouse activity in the loft.  I'm pretty sure they are mice from the quantity of bait they are taking (small), the droppings (small) and no discernible rat-odour.  Anyway, I am baiting and will carry on, BUT....

Last night I put new dishes out with bait, old glass ashtrays, one-third full of bait and when I examined them this evening, 24 hours later, the ashtrays were 'capped' with fibreglass insulation foam!  Just as though a human had torn off some lagging and carefully pressed it leaving no gaps at all on top of the poison.  Both ashtrays were the same, on opposite sides of the loft - some fifty feet apart.  That's another reason I think they must be mice - rats usually avoid new things.  The new ashtray bait holders appear not to have had any bait taken while a couple of old jam jar lids nearby which I also filled last night were emptied with droppings and chaff nearby.

What on earth is going on?  I have googled extensively and found no reference to it on the Internet.  If I cannot get them to eat the bait I am going to find it hard to get rid of them...I think the infestation is too large for trapping to work.

As for the rats outside, I bought a good strong metal bait container with a screw lock from B&Q and have loaded it with the same bait, placed under a wooden sheet to prevent ingress of water, where we know the rats run (from tracks and we have seen two during daylight).  Any better ideas?

Many thanks

[hexhammeasure]

sometimes in the bait boxes we find old nests where mice have taken to live on-site ... easy meal and no dangerous travelling... maybe they are planning this at your bait stations

[SmallTimeSmallholder]

Hi and Welcome 
They are a problem, those rats & mice. We also suffer.
Rats are not supposed to be attracted to compost heaps if you don't put cooked food in them, but we also have a problem with rats in ours (I think they like the warmth)
We've had mice in the attic too, not many, granted but we've never 'heard' them. Are you sure it's not squirrels?
The lid activity seems like typical mice and I agree with you on rats staying away from new things - sorry I can't help but I will keep an interested eye on the post.

[seraphina]

Thanks   Can't be squirrels as I am on the Isle of Wight and we have only reds, and then in specific places.  I haven't seen a squirrel in our area in the 18 months we've been around.  We did have a bad squirrel problem in Surrey years ago, in the loft, and used mink traps to get rid of them.  No, these are mice, I am sure.  I can't get my head round them putting all that lagging on top of the wheat.  There are plenty of quiet safe cozy places in our loft and to use the bait trays seems stupid.  Yet putting all that lagging carefully on top of the bait would possible discourage young mice from eating it?  Do mice really have that intelligence?  With rats it wouldn't surprise me....or grey squirrels, come to that.  If it happens again I'll send off for some different bait.  There is one new one that is interesting http://www.stoprat.co.uk/black_pearl_alphachloralose_mouse_killer_10g_paste_sachets.asp but it is expensive.  Alternatively I can choose a different anti-coagulant type.

Thanks for your help, both

[Possum]

Why don't you get a couple of cats? Cheaper than constantly buying bait and they keep you warm on a winter's evening.

[MAK]

How odd that the mice should cover over the bait so carefully.
Cats are the traditional solution I guess. I once viewed a house with a thatched roof and inspected part of the loft with a view to buy the house. I saw 2 skeletons of cats up there. The owner said that he had been told that cats would be chucked up in the loft if there were mice or rats but would die when there was no food. The feral cats here are often in and out of our barns and fingers crossed we do not have a problem with rats or mice.

[Possum]

Yes, always best to retrieve the cat an hour or two after you've chucked it up into the loft!

[funkyfish]

Contact your local Cats Protection centre, they often need homes for semi feral cats, all you need to do is provide a dry shed etc for them and a small amount of cheap cat bickkies.

[MAK]

You know we often sit and watch the odd feral cat in the grazing fields around us. They sit for an age trying to catch mice or lerot. I thought that the cats lived with neighbours but they just seem to come and go as they please - only today a neighbour told me she fed a cat for 2 years but for the last 2 years she only occaisionally sees it on her garden wall at dusk. She made a mouse catcher! 

[seraphina]

Thanks guys.  Yes, it's the covering-up thing that is so bizarre.  It isn't accidental...two pots several times.  I used to breed albino mice as a teenager so I'm no stranger to them.  They used to run up and down my sleeves and trousers (yikes, did I really do that?).  I have never seen such deliberate presumably altruistic behaviour in mice before.  There are now no noises from the loft so I will do a good reccie tomorrow.  I've not disturbed the rat bait outside yet will check tomorrow.  Rats are a different kettle of poo.  As for cats, yes, we've always had at least one good mouser in previous rural homes but we want hens so I'd prefer to get a kitten when we are ready to establish the hen-house.

I haven't done that before but conventional wisdom says to have kitten with hens and all will be well.  But when the kitten becomes a cat and the cat dies.....  What should we do?  We do want the hens - probably a dozen - to free-range at times in the orchard.

[deepinthewoods]

theres no problem with cats and hens, well i dont have one, the cats keep well clear as a peck on the nose seems to offend. this old place was infested with rats and mice, i trapped loads before i got my pair of rescued neutered toms. no problems ever now. i keep mine in all day and kick 'em out at dusk.

[Reg henderson]

Hi, new on here and just read your post about Rats and Mice , I work in pest control for last 6 years, your problem with your mice in your loft is common (I get it from time to time ) used to be that you got house mice in houses (mus domesticus) but over the last few years we have found that wood mice have been found in houses . Wood mice are smaller than house mice and have a much more red fur than the grey house mouse . The other difference is the feeding habit , if wood mice find a large amount of feed or bait they tend to eat a small amount and cover it over to hide from other mice ( what you have found ) when baiting wood mice use smaller amounts and in more places in your loft , rather than 2 big ash trays use jam jar lids and put down 10 or so . You should get better results.

With regards to your rats , you are right they suffer from xenophobia (fear of new objects) when you place a bait station on a rat run they will go around it as it is a new object that they are not used to , but dont move it , keep it in the same place as after about 2 weeks they get used to it and will start to feed out of it, people tend to put it down for a week find its not working there and move it then have to wait another 2 weeks . The faster way to get a bait feed into rats is to either use things that they allready pass under and bait there (as long as it is safe and out of reach of non target animals) or trace the run back to the rat hole and put a small bag of bait down the hole , as rats will eat on their doorstep rather than hunt for food , use sandwich bags as that keeps the bait dry .

hope that is of help to you , if you need more help try my works web site www.grahampestcontrol.com loads of free advice on there , thanks Reg

[hexhammeasure]

Thanks reg... learned something new!

[Reg henderson]

no problem Ian , get told loads of times that baiting mice and rats dont work , but if done right and bait the right way for what you are trying to kill is half the battle , think like and know what you are trying to kill. and use baits in safe places and you will get results .

[YorkshireLass]

I have found that a large concrete paving slab over the top of the defunct toilet cuts off the main "highway" into the outbuildings here    I'm sure I will still get the odd one, but no fresh droppings around yet.


Good job too - nearly did me in lifting the bleedin' thing up there!


Moral of the story - tidy up, locate any really obvious routes in