[Big Benny Shep]

im thinking of getting some cows but i know little about them.
Ive got about 80 breeding sheep so ive got pens, trailers, hay and suchlike.
ive been looking at dexters as i would like something small with preferably no horns
was thinking of getting 2 breeding from them and eating the offspring  [size=78%] (or selling them)[/size]


any help would bre really really appreciated 


Thanks!

[colliewoman]

I wouldn't rely on sheep equipment for cattle personally. Just last Monday I watched a friends dexter jump a 5 bar gate after being brought in to be tested, she obviously didn't think we were letting her back out to the silage quick enough
Sheep hurdles will be destroyed in no time!


I will admit though I have owned precisely 0 cows myself and can only go by my mates mental beasts

[lachlanandmarcus]

If breeding be careful about genetics as short legged type of Dexters have some genetic issues you will want to check out, this doesnt affect long legged Dexters (who are still pretty short!). However they make excellent eating. Check temperament too as this varies within the breed and the wild ones are pretty wild, but most are fine. If you got a cow with steer at foot that is in calf you would have yourself a nice little setup - boy can go off for meat but Mum would still have the new calf for company and you could share milk with the calf if you wanted to milk Mum.

[SallyintNorth]

Sheep and 2 Dexters or similar sounds like a good plan.     Donna's right that sheep gear isn't suitable for handling cattle, but if you make sure you get nice quiet beasts and use a sensible bull / breed for the calves, and have stables, byres or other suitable buildings, you can probably rig things up to cope with them.  I can't think I would ever need to use the cattle crush with my Jersey cow, for instance, but I can tie her up in a stall if I need to, and I've halter-trained her offspring.

Rosemary and Dan have 2 Shetland cows on a similar basis to that you describe - I was about to point you at their Cattle section only to find it's one they haven't written yet.  Ohhhhh Rooooossseeemmmmaaaarrryyyyy    You will find interesting articles in the Cattle section of their Diary however.  Their story starts here

[Rosemary]

It's on the list, Sally 

Yep, we have two Shetlands, doing much as you plan - bull calves for beef, heifers for breeding. They are a dual purpose breed but most folk keep them as sucklers. They will produce calves to a Continental bull (although probably not wise to try this for a first calf from a heifer) but if you go for Shetlands, I would urge you to breed pure as the breed is SO endangered.

Ours are halter trained, so we just have a gate in the byre, hinged to the wall - we tie them up beside the gate and swing it over to pin their bums.

Shetlands are horned but of course can be dehorned, but I think they look better with - and if a cattle beast wants to hurt you, the horns issue isn't going to come into it.

The beef is absolutely tremendous, they are docile, small, live on fresh air, easy calving, no genetic issues (other than in bull choice if breeding, because of the small size of the gene pool, but there's good advice available). The breeder we bought our beef from this year had 168kg of beef from his 28 month old bullock.

We graze the sheep behind the cattle, rotating round five paddocks - this year we had zero worms in the faecal egg counts, so there must be something in this multi-species, rotational grazing management.

If you are interested in Shetlands, have a look on the Shetland Cattle Breeders Association website www.shetlandcattle.org.uk - lots of good information and a list of cattle for sale.

[Big Benny Shep]

thanks for the quick replies!
getting a cow with steer at foot and being in calf sounds like a great idea 
both shetlands and dexters are sounding good, i have a building that could be used for handling but not big enough for overwintering but from what i can tell both breeds seem able to winter outside, how true is this?


  getting excited now

[Factotum]

both breeds seem able to winter outside, how true is this?

We have Shetlands - a small herd of 15 beasts. The cattle have open access to their shed all year round and usually prefer to stay outside. They do use the shed in the summer - just to get out of the 'searing' heat we get here in Moray...They go inside when the snow lays - more to get to the hay than to get out of the weather, and usually troop outside again once they've had their fill of hay.  We have been known to shut them indoors - but that is when we have our calvings and we have thick snow at the same time (March/April) and we don't want to risk the young calves in the cold & wet.

We don't find the horns to be a problem - but you do have to be wary of being trodden, barged or possibly kicked - the latter by the calves who get excited over everything & nothing.

Our adults are mostly docile  and will come to a whistle, especially if they know there's a few carrots on offer though you do have to be careful not to get squashed in the rush.

Great beasts, fairly easy to look after, will thrive on not very good grazing and produce very nice beef. It was our beef mentioned by Rosemary. Our steer was fed only on grass and our hay (with the odd carrot) - he finished well on that without the need for concentrates.

[lachlanandmarcus]

I should add to the above posts that even tho Shetlands are endangered, that doesnt mean (un like with rare dog breeds etc)  that you have to 'pay through the nose' to buy them, they are very good value IMO to buy.

[Big Benny Shep]

have seen a dexter with calf very close so gonna email the guy and have a looky see


Thanks every one!


Ill let you know how it goes, any further advice appreciated, how much harder are they too look after than sheep? surely nothing can die more than sheep?

[Old Shep]

even sheep only die once 

[SallyintNorth]

Sounds like you are only looking at a single cow?  I know she'll have her calf for company, but it really isn't the same.  Cattle need other cattle of their own age / stage for company; they're herd animals.  If you can find another heifer or cow to go with her, she'll be much happier and healthier - and the calves, too, really appreciate other calves to play with.

Hmmmm... how do cattle differ from sheep to look after....

This list won't be exhaustive but here are some things that came straight to mind:

• cattle need way more copper than sheep - take care you don't poison the sheep with the cattle's cake / licks
• the worming regime differs; worm calves as they are turned out for their first summer, using a bolus works well
• cattle invoke TB testing (don't forget to inform Animal Health when you start keeping cattle; they'll arrange your first TB test)
• very young calves don't tolerate being rained on very well - best get them under well-ventilated cover if you can, and certainly keep a very close watch for signs of pneumonia
• calving a cow is a much bigger job than lambing a ewe!    Get a calving aid and some calving ropes, and make sure you have someone nearby on call to come and give you a hand when you've a cow near calving
• a cow is more likely to be an aggressively protective mother than a ewe is - and a far more dangerous assailant if she is
• calves can need assistance / guidance to get their first drink just like lambs do - and the mother is nowhere near as easy to restrain if you do need to help. (I'm glad you're getting an experienced cow, at least she'll want the calf to suckle.)  Get some Life-Aid in stock near to calving, get a shot of that into the calf if it looks like not getting its first bellyful of milk within the first few hours
• best to keep dogs away from newly-calved cows - not least because the cow will go for the dog with evil intent, and the dog has probably just run behind your legs for protection
• very young calves are prone to scours, to pneumonia and to dying at least as much as young lambs are
• cattle are prone to two types of mastitis; one's a killer and the other can kill too; a cow can come down with E-coli mastitis (that's the most lethal type) even before she calves
• cattle kick.  And if you haven't dealt with them before, the speed with, and the angles at which they can kick can surprise you! 
• cattle will mess on with - and swallow if they can - any strings or bits of plastic or indeed anything at all that is tied to a fence or gate or just left lying around.  Although they have a stomach for filtering out foreign bodies, they can die of ingesting foreign matter they can't digest.  I've seen one of our bullocks trying to swallow a 330ml Lucozade bottle discarded by a tourist - he nearly managed it, too. 
• cattle can jump fences and gates like steeplechasers
• cattle can undo strings round gates like you wouldn't believe
• cattle trash fences and gates like you wouldn't believe

They do have their good points too!   

[colliewoman]

I'm going to add to Sally's list with a few of my own inexperienced observations.....


Cattle poach gateways like nothing you can imagine when you have only been used to dainty sheep feet.
Cattle have the amazing ability to swat you in the face with a shitty tail if they think it would be amusing (ask me  how I know)
They can do the above, plus tread on your toes PLUS pee in your wellies in the same instant, ask me how I know this one too
They are more dribbly than a mastiff
They can be the most obstinate, stubborn and calculating of beasts (make a goat look like an angel) OR can be you very best friend in the world.
In icy weather a full grown Simmental X Hereford cow can slip and fold up neatly into a water trough   then require 6 people and a JCB telehandler to extract her. She's my favourite cow ever .
I cannot wait to be able to have my own

[TheCaptain]

OR can be you very best friend in the world.

Seconded, Betty is the greatest listening post in the world!

[colliewoman]

OR can be you very best friend in the world.

Seconded, Betty is the greatest listening post in the world!

 

[Big Benny Shep]

wowzers what a list! sounds fairly straight forward and common sense tho (mainly  )


Sounds like good fun aswell!   


Thanks for all the knowledge, ill probably need it