[Fleecewife]

Oh, what a load of bo&&ocks...

Whilst I agree that the ladies on the Shetland list often get their knickers in a twist, I wouldn't dismiss the tup problem totally as a load of b*****ks.  A well-known Shetland breeder, young and fit, has been badly butted by a tup, who knocked her to the ground and continued to butt her down there, to her injury.
 
As others have said, be wary whenever you are in a field with tups.  Never turn your back on even the friendliest tup, nor the smallest. 
If you must feed tups from a bucket in the winter then tip the contents into a trough from the other side of the fence - why does it have to be in the middle of the field?
 
More people are killed by sheep in Britain than by any other animal, or so it is reported.  So please be sensible     and don't pet tup lambs destined to be used for breeding

[kumquat]

Ohh, Jaykay that doesn't look good.... a timely reminder that i shouldn't become complacent.


i tend to feed mine within the hurdles so always have a quick escape and so they are used to the hurdles if i need to tend to any.


I've been floored too many times by enthusiastic terriers so something with horns wouldn't be good



ITH - I've requested that she becomes "Dame Julie" - I've booked one for next year already 

[Foobar]

More people are killed by sheep in Britain than by any other animal

Are you sure?  Did you mean injured?

[VSS]

It does happen.

You have to be wary and resprectful of any ram  - entire males, sheep, cattle or pigs can be unpredictable at the best of times, and although some are real softies, you can never take it for granted.

Tim got smacked in the face by a ram a couple of years ago. Must have somehow re-arranged his sinuses because he now has hardly any sense of smell, not much sense of taste, and has chronic sinustis.

Don't be frightened of tups, but do be aware they can do damage - particularly if they have horns, and be aware that it might be prudent to keep small children out of the way.

[Fronhaul]

My two Shetland tups are no different to the other 4 rams we are running at the moment.  Treat them with respect and cull any ram that appears to have temperament problems is my approach.  Skein 3 (Shetland) and Jay 5 (BWM) are two of the most gentlemanly rams one could ever hope to meet.  Bruno shearling (Jacob) is fine providing he isn't left on his own and appreciates nothing more than a scratch under the chin, Dion shearling (Shetland) can be on the cheeky side but I have never seen him being aggressive, Tywi shearling (Jacob) is something of a wild child but again no aggression and then there is Nevern shearling (BWM) who is so laid back he just might fall over one day and his son Pinsley who is very similar.  When they aren't in with ewes I can walk up to any of them except Tywi and halter them and lead them out of the field.  I do everything wrong because they do get scratches and the odd ginger biscuit or oat cake but they also have their routine and we do spend a fair amount of time with them ensuring they respect us just as we respect them.

[Fleecewife]

More people are killed by sheep in Britain than by any other animal

Are you sure?  Did you mean injured?

Well I'm not totally sure because I can't find the quote, but no I do mean killed. I was surprised m yself when I read it.  You would think that horses would cause more deaths, and cattle.   The ones I can think of with sheep include the lady whose quad was pushed over a cliff by her over excited flock, and the elderly lady who was knocked to the ground by a couple of flying male Shetlands and died when her head hit a stone.   I'll try to remember some others........

[Ina]

Strangely enough, I've never been worried about my friend's Merinos - just lately went in to feed the rams a dozen or so), in the field, into a trough and with a bucket, and no problem... And they do have horns. I find it a lot more worrying to be in a smallish space with them, as when we do feet etc. The you can't jump out of the way when those horns approach you! But none of them has ever shown aggression towards humans, only towards each other, as it should be.

[Anke]

Oh, what a load of bo&&ocks...

Whilst I agree that the ladies on the Shetland list often get their knickers in a twist, I wouldn't dismiss the tup problem totally as a load of b*****ks.  A well-known Shetland breeder, young and fit, has been badly butted by a tup, who knocked her to the ground and continued to butt her down there, to her injury.
 
 
More people are killed by sheep in Britain than by any other animal, or so it is reported.

Well I would like to see the evidence that a Shetland tup is MORE aggressive than other breeds of tup. Likely to push for his food when it is not coming quick enough yes, but so is my texel boy and the larger ewes can also be quite "head"strong.... ANY tup (or billy goat, or bull or cow, ewe or horned nanny goat) CAN be dangerous, any time of the year.
I can see though where this thinking is coming from - most Shetland (and other rare breeds flocks) are kept in small flocks and are not really a commercial enterprise (I know I will be shot down for this ). More likely to be treated like pets rather than farm animals - given treats, scratched etc etc. I also do fall into this category sometimes... but more so with my goats than with the sheep. Also I hazard a guess more Shetlands are kept by women than men... hence the twisted knickers, rather than boxers...
It would be an interesting statistic to see if more people are killed by sheep than by cattle/quadbikes/tractors/horses/dogs etc etc - Given the number of sheep flocks in this country is probably higher than any other livestock and so it would make sense to have statiscally more injuries (and possibly deaths) from sheep than say cattle?
 

[SteveHants]

I deal with horned tups, although not shetlands and they should be treated with respect. I wouldn't work in a pen with them unless I had someone there looking on, I have no doubt that a Wilts Horn could break your leg if it so desired.


I will occasionally feed them as I find them coming to the bucket a useful way to look them over, but I do not pet them or feed them regularly - tups should be frightened of you, IMO.

[Fleecewife]

Yes I think it's all about being sensible. 
 
My OH found a quote of 896 people in the States being killed by sheep, many of them from infected bites 
 
Anke I think you are right that many Shetland sheep are kept by shepherdesses, often older, and that because Shetlands look so cuddly they forget they are also male sheep.   A tup lamb which has been petted so is a bit mixed up about which species he is, may well just be trying to include his owner in with his harem.
 
I don't think Shetlands are intrinsically any more dangerous than tups of some other breeds, but all tups, all animals, all humans too for that matter, are potentially dangerous.
 
I would though suggest that Soay tups are more aggressive than most (having watched them here up against Shetlands and multi-horned Hebs).  This is perhaps due to the fact that on their native islands there are equal numbers of males to females, approximately, so tups have to compete to be successful at breeding, just as stags do.  Even outside the breeding season a Soay tup has to establish himself in the pecking order. This has been his natural behaviour over thousands of years, with little intervention by Man, unlike most other breeds where there are far fewer tups per group of ewes, so not a lot to fight for.

[in the hills]

Yes FW,  in my limited experience with sheep, even our ewes seem rather more "determined/ head strong" than the commercial ewes around here. My neighbour was very surprised at their strengh and amount they  resisted when being handled compared to his big sheep. I suppose it follows that the tups are going to be a bit "brave".


Not wanting to steal your thread Jaykay but feel it is linked so will ask here,


What is the best course of action if a Soay, Shetland or other primitive  shows aggression?  With the tup we used last year, stick waving etc. just seemed to be seen as a challenge    and did not put him off at all.

[jaykay]

This is what I do.

I catch hold of his bottom jaw, my hand underneath and my fingers into his mouth. I hold on hard and no doubt it hurts.

Then I lift up his face so he is looking upwards at me. This prevents his normal aggressive stance of a lowered head and the eye contact also reinforces dominance.

And then I hurl abuse at him, as loudly as possible, from very close, and with as low a voice as I can manage (if you don't do this deliberately women end up shrieking when they shout, which is nowhere near as effective as a lower sound). Along the lines of 'don't you bloody dare, you £&@&& sheep, you'll see what happens if you carry on like that'. I don't suppose for a minute the words matter but the fact that I'm threatening him seems to 

It sounds very silly written out like this. It's ok as long as the tup is small enough to get hold of in this way. I couldn't do it with my Roughs.

I stopped Onyx in his tracks like this - I only had to do it twice, to have him very respectful. Similarly, rather more gently, I have stopped my biggest tup lamb taking a dunt at me - he's stopped the practice too now.

So much so I had thought that I had the issue sorted, until all this talk on the Shetland forum. I shall revert to my above 'training/frightening the living daylights out of them' methods if necessary and otherwise enjoy them.

[in the hills]

Thanks Jaykay.  I haven't heard that one and will try it if I need to.


Hope your Shetlands turn out to be meek and mild    .  Didn't realise there was a Shetland forum ..... useful to be able to discuss your breed with people that keep and understand them, I guess.

[jaykay]

Well, it's the Shetland Sheep Society email link. Not as sophisticated as this forum 

[jaykay]

Though I have to say the conversation re tups there just now seems to have 'gone away with the faeries' in my very humble opinion