[deepinthewoods]

basically they use the old nuclear waste as the fuel to provide more energy, they can keep re-using the waste until it becomes mininal. theyre fuelled in part by depleted uranium, DU is the thing i have the most problem with.
of course this reactor will not remove the thousands of used rounds lying in the earth all around the world, but it could use up the stockpiles of unused material. in theory removing the need for burial.
 
i think the uk's government wont go for it unfortunatley, the old fashioned nuclear lobby is too powerful. (cos it makes loads of money)
 
germany has invested 40 billion (euros) in their renewables, my opinion is, were we to do this it would create so much growth and faith in the security of our energy that we would become much more investable on the world markets

[Small Farmer]

Meanwhile politicians squabbling over wind farm subsidies is endangering the needed investment in offshore capacity.  Offshore generation costs dramatically more than onshore, which is why the UK's very modest installed capacity is still vastly more than any other country has done, in fact more than the rest of the world put together.


Erecting ad maintaining a turbine on a windy hill is trivial in engineering terms. The same task ten miles offshore is a real challenge. This ain't going to be cheap energy.




This is from the FT this morning


Orders for offshore wind turbines have come to an abrupt halt in the UK, in what some industry figures say is the first clear sign of a long-feared slowdown in renewable energy investment.
The three leading manufacturers of the turbines due to be made for the vast banks of wind farms planned for British seas have taken just one offshore order between them this year, the FT has learned.

MoreON THIS STORYUndercover Economist A battle for our green and pleasant land

• Coalition clashes on wind farm policy
• Wind farm approvals rise to record levels
• On Monday Hot air over wind power
• UK wind farm jobs blow over to Europe

ON THIS TOPIC‘The Carbon Crunch’, by Dieter Helm

This comes amid an “unnecessary investment freeze” triggered by the government’s troubled efforts to change the way it subsidises low-carbon energy, according to Keith MacLean of the SSE power company, which is developing UK offshore farms.
Paul Coffey of RWE Innogy, another offshore developer, said his company was not currently in the market to buy turbines, but if it were, delays in the government’s plans and the “ridiculous” remarks of anti-wind farm energy minister John Hayes last week “would certainly make us think twice”.
The energy secretary, Ed Davey, was forced to contradict Mr Hayes who suggested the government no longer backed the “extraordinary” number of onshore wind farms “peppered” around the country.
Offshore farms are far less politically contentious than onshore plants but any sign of government opposition to wind power spooks developers. They are also crucial to meeting European Union targets to get 20 per cent of energy from renewable sources by 2020.
Germany’s Siemens, which built 60 per cent of the 800-odd turbines installed in UK seas so far, says it took one UK offshore order in July. Neither Denmark’s Vestas, which made 35 per cent of UK offshore turbines, nor Repower Systems, a German subsidiary of India’s Suzlon say they have had an order since October 2011.

[robbiegrant]

Nuclear is not the way to go ( IMHO  ) Save it for deep space exploration or summat.

As for the amount of phallanx (DU) ammunition lying about Iraq, it just makes me sad 

http://rense.com/general79/hiro.htm What kind of legacy have we left for their bairns?!

I dont like the pylons and there associated HT cables. There and zillions of them all over the country! The further away the power has to travel the bigger they get. People complain about the windmills but I rarely hear of complaint regarding pylons anymore ( maybe everyone has got used to them ) Surely locally produced power should be used locally it would reduce the need from these monstrosities!

Efficiency is a big part of the answer, but the utility companies dont want that, ohh noooo.... they want us to keep consuming. And if we consume less they will put their prices up even higher.

So better to be independent and effiecient so they cant hold us to ransom!!!

Dont get me started  GRRRRRRRRRRRR 



 

[escapedtothecountry]

Energy efficiency is important - but even if everyone made themselves more 20% more efficient that does not equate to the country using less power. Increases in population; increases in productivity require more power. Economic growth inevitably leads to more power usage etc etc. Therefore efficiency is important - but we need ways to generate more. The amount of power used will not decrease over time.

[in the hills]

Robbiegrant - when the turbines were proposed for Powys, majority of people were unaware it seems of the necessary infra-structure that would come with them. There is now just as much opposition to these ..... their inefficiency, health risks and so on.


Outdated transmission system. Designed for conventional power stations but not matching new green technologies. Underground transmission and more up to date methods cost more so we are told and maybe no subsidies available for this so it seems no-one is interested. 

[deepinthewoods]

a slightly one sided article this. worth a read tho.
 
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/10/11/what-are-efforts-to-contain-fukushima-2/

[Plantoid]

So, what do people think of wind turbines?
I shudder at the very thought of nuclear but having found out quite a lot about wind power/turbines, I don't think they are without many problems themselves. Big issue here in Mid-Wales and not popular with many. A lot of very knowledgable people do not think they are the way to go.

A blind man warming his hands on a heater running of them would be happy to see them 
 
 The best  I 've heard so far ( from a German whilst I was on holiday near Phalz  last year )  wrt on shore based turbines having had his ears bent by a welsh woman at the camp site where she was moaning  " They are a blot on the landscape why on earth did you lot put them here " ,
 His reply in good english  was  " I have no right to let my kids grow up without electricity and they will have grown  up simply accepting the turbines as a sensible source of power so what's your problem ? "

[northfifeduckling]

I always thought that the turbines have been planned quite well in Germany, you can find them a lot near long stretches along motorways. Clever.

[robbiegrant]

I know this subject is a bit of a hot potato but in the end of the day we still don't have many new viable alternatives. If something isn't done ( by that i mean production of electricty by some means ) the lights go out. Then what?

I would rather not hand over a nuclear hot potato to my kids. 

We had thought about a PV system here but in the end decided against it, Its expensive, we would need planning ( conserved building ), it would spoil the look of the house, etc etc... Its still a good alternative tho.  ( we are still thinking on this one.... )

In the mean time we have decided to go down the efficiency route amongst other ways. Modern LED bulbs have only really become viable recently ( I have a drawer of "NOT QUIET GOOD ENOUGH MODELS" collected over the last few years   > ) 

The new ones are great     and have a lot of advantages.

They last for YEARS and YEARS
Use very little power.
Come on immediately
Decent colour balance
The don't have phosphorus in them
They are not burning hot
or die as quickly as dichroics ( sometimes they lasted a matter of weeks! )
Some of them dim ( expensive tho )

Five years ago i listed all the internal bulbs ( incandesant ) on our ground floor, adding the power they consumed. it equalled 810 watts. ( if they where all on )

We now use 72watts ! and that includes lighting a new hall, stairwell and kitchen extension.

Robbiegrant - when the turbines were proposed for Powys, majority of people were unaware it seems of the necessary infra-structure that would come with them. There is now just as much opposition to these ..... their inefficiency, health risks and so on.

Outdated transmission system. Designed for conventional power stations but not matching new green technologies. Underground transmission and more up to date methods cost more so we are told and maybe no subsidies available for this so it seems no-one is interested. 

Hi There ...
 I wasn't aware of the requirement for new infra-structure, surely wires are wires!? In what way do these systems not match? Is it not fed into the grid? What health risks are associated with wind turbines? excuse my ignorance...  

There is a massive inefficiency transmitting electricity down cables for long distances. soooo much is wasted in transmission. It least by having having many power sources producing electricity locally, the electricity has the shortest distance to the appliance. The EMF radiated from power cables, cant be healthy either. ( Have you ever held a florescent tube under a HT cable slung between two pylons at night. ) It turns into a light sabre !!!!

Im sure masses could be invested in a more efficient system of transmission after all we have had the old systems for a while now. The older transmission systems do work.... my power supply hasn't gone down in a long time in UK... in India we have power cuts daily.

It a travesty that the utility companies make so much in profit and hold us to ransom everytime the gong strikes...whilst the government sit back...

ho hum

[Plantoid]

Robbie you can get ground level stand alone units in daisy chains .  My bro inlaw has nine panels out in his paddock about ten metres from his house . He got his before the change in subsidied for £ 7800 fitter and wrking .  I'm not sure if it is still viable in the short term .
Last time we spoke in  June this year he said he had  £ 550 in just under four months as well as having his take for his  family of four .

[in the hills]

   Robbiegrant - Yes, the existing lines work but are inefficient. From what I have found out about the power generated from turbines planned for Powys, it will not be used locally but transported largely into England.


The research into the risks associated with living close to high voltage cables is often conflicting and confusing. I am always wary of research ie. who commissioned it in the first place, who is interpreting it
But here goes .... the most talked about risk is cancer and leukaemia, in both adults and children but more so the latter. Some studies show connections with breast cancer, decreased libido, fatigue, depression, birth defects, reproductive problems, stress, headaches, trouble sleeping. Due to there being so many variables eg. life style, diet, genetics, household wiring configuration it is difficult to prove a definite link. A study over many years in England and Wales, showed that children living within 200m of hv cables had a 70 % inc. risk of developing leukaemia and 200-600m away had a 20% increased risk. Results were descibed as "statistically significant" but there is at present no biological mechanism to explain the risk.


I will not be directly affected by any planned developments in Powys if they do go ahead but if you asked me if I would be a NIMBY, as is the popular term, and not want my children to live under the many overhead cables that will be built, then if I am honest .... yeah I would not take the risk. But then you see, your house value falls significantly, cause there are lots out there that are also Nimbies and wouldn't want it in their yard either. So .... you are stuck. That's the position of many in Mid Wales. I don't think many of them support nuclear but do they want to risk their childrens health??? Would you??? And of couse they are aware of the legacy of nuclear.


I think it was Suffolk Council that commissioned I believe an "independent " report into the effectiveness of overhead cables when it comes to green energy (they I think were in the planning stage for off shore wind). Sorry I can't give a link to it and can't remember all the tech. details without reading it only the summary I have already given. When my husband presented that document to Scottish Power they said they had never heard anything about it but were keen to read it .... they seemed very defensive if out dated transmission was mentioned.   

[deepinthewoods]

double the risk of childhood leukemia in 5km radius of nuclear plants.
 
http://enenews.com/must-read-mag-on-leukemia-evidence-linking-nuclear-plants-to-ill-health-increasingly-compelling-clear-something-is-going-on-says-prof-uk-govt-blames-unidentified-virus

[deepinthewoods]

new report about cumbria, from the national audit office no less!
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-20228176

[in the hills]

Not disputing that DITW. I don't support nuclear, just answering a question that was asked. Nuclear has terrified me since I was a child and would I want my children to live near one .... NO.


But 2 wrongs don't make a right. Just sharing bits of information that I have gained about the wind industry and what comes with it. No easy answers and everything comes with a price.

[deepinthewoods]

dont get me wrong inthehills, i agree with you too! just showing the other side...