[ChaseView]

Hi All,
We've recently had our first piglet litters and all is not well - any advice gratefully received....

Our 2 large blacks girls (about 10 months old) both farrowed within a day of each other (same large black boar). Marmite farrowed first with 8 piglets - 6 good sized and 2 slightly smaller. Treacle farrowed the next day with 7 good sized piglets.
Both mums had milk and seemed to feeding and attending to their piglets very well. We gradually increased both mums feed to 10 1/2 lbs a day plus grass, carrots and apples. They are all outside with plenty of space.
Treacles piglets (now 2 weeks old) are great - really healthy and robust. They look plump and have great skin and spend most of their time outside the ark, larking about. They are all starting to eat the weaners pellets now.
But in contrast Marmite's piglets aren't thriving at all. They are clearly smaller and haven't put on enough weight. They also have flaky skin, are not as alert and spend most of their time huddled in the ark. We have tried supplementing their mother's milk with bowls of goats milk (sometimes with egg yolk and cod liver oil) but have now lost the 3 smallest and the other 5 don't look well. To be honest, I expect to lose another 2 at least. We regularly check Marmite's teats and she still has milk (and still lies down regularly to feed her piglets) but I guess it's not as much as Treacle or not as good quality?

I guess my questions are, is this common? Is there anything we could have done to prevent it? Both girls lived in the same pen with the boar until we separated them for farrowing. They were both the same size and condition (good) with the same rations.... Neither pig has ever been ill , apart from Marmite suffering some rear leg lameness for a few weeks early in her pregnancy but I assumed this was injury rather than illness.... She recovered fully.

Also, is there anything else I can do for my poor piglets? It's just heartbreaking to see them slowly decline like this.

Many thanks

[LulaB]

If it were me, I would get the vet out ASAP.  Something isn't right and you seem to be doing everything you can.


Good luck.  Hope it goes better than you fear.

[RaisinHall Tamworths]

We have a sow whos first litter didn't thrive at all, very quiet, scouring, not gaining weight and dying.  Had various drugs, antibiotics, wormer.  Only one litter out of 4 at the same time that was affected. Poo samples came back negative.  They started to go downhill about 2 weeks.  First one died I opened it up and its small intestines were see through and it had no villi so couldn't absorb any nutrients hence not thriving at all.  Next one that died vet did a PM and found the same problem.  Next piglet that was looking like it was on its way out I took in to the lab to have it put to sleep and another PM done on it because we really needed to know what was going on to try save the rest.  Came back inconclusive, £70 or so later we were no better off knowing  .  Anyway we lost the whole litter  .
The sow has farrowed again, didn't know if it was a one off problem so thought we'd give her another go and the piglets started looking to be going wrong again, vet has now diagnosed sow has a liver problem so isn't able to pass on the nutrients for the piglets to develop right.  She had an injection of Vitesel and Selenium and after 2 days of this the piglets turned around completely.  From being huddled up shivering they were running round fighting! Vet had said they may need a top up but they started eating creep and are doing fine now thankfully.
Obviously don't know if it is anything like this going on with your sow just letting you know of a problem we have had and what has helped get us through.  Fingers crossed yours pick up 

[SMarshall]

Our last large black litter was to a gilt (not sow) and 3 out of 7 came down with greasy pig disease badly.  Do a search for other responses I got in August this year from others on TAS.

Skin became too pig for them, was flaky and greasy and they looked wrinkly and dehydrated.  Once diagnosed, the vet advised daily baths with a surgical/chlorhexidine scrub (hibi scrub type) and injections of antibiotics/anti-inflammatories (betamox LA and flunxine??).  He also advised us to take them away from from mum as he didn't think they were getting enough milk (she'd had her own issues with a snout bleed) and to get formula (we used farramate) down for them.

We lost one, but the others pulled through and are now 9 wks old and really sturdy.  Once we'd got them back on track we put them outdoors with their mum again (although she'd obviously dried up) and as they were obviously weaned all has been good with mum showing them the ways of the pig (better late than never!).

Defo worth getting a vet out to diagnose, only after that could we get on with dealing with it but it required a quick turnaround.  The worst piglet was taken to the vet for the diagnosis and died two days later.  We put the milk in a tray (round ones like pubs use) and get some milk onto their snouts to get them to lick them and away they go.  Luckily we've not had to bottle feed any piglets needing topping up, they've all taken to lapping from a tray.

It was so heartbreaking but as soon as we got them on some treatment they picked up (bar the one we lost which was obviously the worst affected).

Can't say that what you've got is what we had and the treatment came from our vet, but that was our experience this August.  Our Large Black sow on the other hand has always been fine, all I've read about greasy pig points to a first time mum thing but I don't know if yours are first time mums or just first time mums for you.

Fingers crossed for you.
Steph

[HappyHippy]

I agree with the other comments, time to get the vet out for a look, because they need treatment asap.
The quicker you treat them the better a chance they have of recovering and at a fortnight they'll turn around quick 
Keep us posted 

[rispainfarm]

raisonhall, you are lucky to have a good vet by the sounds of things, most vets don't pick up anything when dealing with pigs as they just don't have a clue

[ChaseView]

Hi everyone,
Thanks for all your advice and sharing your experiences...
Just to answer a question the sows were first time Mums. There is no discharge or patches on the skin so after looking at images on the web I have tentatively ruled out Greasy Pig.

We spoke to the vet and he said it's probably genetic but just in case he gave us an antibiotic to jab the piglets with (there are only 4 left now). He said there was nothing else we could do.
There are still 4 this morning so I guess we shall just have to wait and see. They are still having the goats milk cocktail too so I am crossing everything they will turn the corner. Their cousins are still completely healthy (as are both Mums).

 

[ChaseView]

Oh something else I should add, they are not scouring - one piglet had 1 episode when she was very near the end but all the rest are/were fine and left the ark to do their business.

Thank you for all your help

[SallyintNorth]

Am I imagining someone saying that goats milk wasn't ideal for pigs?  That baby formula was best, or cows milk second best?

[kja]

Am I imagining someone saying that goats milk wasn't ideal for pigs?  That baby formula was best, or cows milk second best?

the OP said they had given goats milk with egg yolk & olive oil not sure why you would add to goats milk though as there is nothing better than goat milk to bring pigs around.

we use it for the farrowing sow and piglets but never add to it just milk any addatives inc water can bring on scours.

[Mrs Snoodles]

Fingers crossed for you. Keep them warm.

[RaisinHall Tamworths]

Have you had a post mortum done on any of the dead piglets?  May be worth either opening one up yourself or getting the vet to just to see if there is anything obvious going on.  Hopefully the antibiotics will do the trick