[StephB]

My two pigs are six months old and are ready to go to the abbatoir Monday afternoon.

I got myself all organised a few months ago and ordered pliers and metal ear tags.....BUT......

On the day that i ordered the tags I must have had a COMPLETE brain fade and I have just realised that I have had the tags printed with the wrong herd number  .

HOW STUPID AM I

They are the herd number from the breeder.  Do you think it is worth risking sending them?.  I was under the slight understanding that if the pigs were already metal tagged from the original birth site then you do not have to tag again.  Is this correct?.  Would you risk it?.

Grrrrrrr... Its going to take weeks to get new tags printed.  am tempted to risk it?.

Any KIND advice would be appreciated.

[sokel]

My first 2 weaners where tagged with the breeders tags and being a newbie I just thought that that was all they needed, It wasnt untill they where booked in that I discovered they had to have our tags in aswell
I ordered our tags and it took 2 weeks for my own to come .
Not sure if it would complicate things using the breeders tags because in theory  the records would show that they came from the breeder and that you still had your  pigs
I could be totaly wrong but thats the way I saw it

[Bionic]

StephB have you thought of ringing the abattoir and asking them?
My abattoir have been very helpful
Sally

[oaklandspigs]

Under the Pigs Records Identification & Movement Order 2003 (PRIMO 2003) you were allowed to do this.  PRIMO 2009 changed this and made it a requirement that the ID was from the place of movement so your herd no. is what's required and PRIMO 2011 (the latest) has continued this.  In Scotland PRIMO 2011 introduced this as a requirement (before this is Scotland a temp mark was fine if the abattoir allowed this).
 
In practice the abattoir won't care a jot - as long as the e-aml & paperwork ID matches the pig's ID, they have no responsibility to check that the numbers are correct.  So in practical terms, yes you can turn up with a pig with the breeder's ID and no-one will check, unless you transgress some rule, and they start checking (eg have undeclared medical treatments, and testing finds this out)
 
However under e-aml, you'll need to add the breeders herdmark to your profile, and this may (and I stress MAY) produce an anomaly in the system - ie two people with separate addresses but the same herdmark.  I have no idea if e-aml flags up stuff like this, and it may be a risk worth taking, but that's your judgement.
 
Legally therefore you would be breaking rules, and e-aml might or might not see this.  the choice is yours!
 
 
 
 
 
 

[Berkshire Boy]

Oaklands, eaml doesn't flag up things like that. If you put the holding in your profile it works fine, I have done it.
StephB I would chance it, I have forgotten to slap pigs in the past and they had no tags and no one said anything.

[P6te]

Hi StephB,

I'm in agreement with BB ... but lets assume you have slapmarked them but as its the first time you've done it ... you didn't do it quite firmly enough!!   

[Mrs Snoodles]

All my details were messed up with my last batch (we have an odd set up). Eaml flagged me up with what is a generic note, I  still took the pigs to abattoir, they didn't bat an eyelid so from their end it was all OK. I then sorted everything out with local animal health office afterwards.

[Fowgill Farm]

send them on the breeders herd number, all my weaner buyers send their pigs to the ab on my number, its stupid unnecessary red tape so as we say NIKE! the abbattoir don't care so long as it has a tag and can be traced which it can.
hth
Mandy

[StephB]

Thank you sooo much ever, what an idiot I am. 

Have ordered some new tags so I don't make such a stupid mistake next year 

xxx

[Anke]

Sorry, I probably have not memorised the latest piggie movements rules in every great detail - but are you saying that even though my pigs have come with the eartags from their breeder I need to add ANOTHER one with my own herd number when sending them to the abattoir? That would seem absurd, and completely out of sync with other animal movement rules (as in sheep etc keep the number of their holding of birth for life).
I am in Scotland.

[oaklandspigs]

Anke, in a word "yes"
 
The Pigs (Records, Identification and Movement) (Scotland) Order 2011 says in article 7
 
7.
(1) No person may move a pig off a holding unless it has
(a)an eartag with the letters UK¯ followed by the herdmark which identifies the holding from which it is being moved;
(b)a tattoo showing that herdmark (with or without the letters UK¯); or
(c)a slapmark showing a unique individual identifier being
(i)the herdmark which identifies the holding of departure; or
(ii)an alpha numeric identifier allocated to the keeper by one of the marketing or processing groups
 
Article 8 defines an exeption for pigs under a year old live to live, but yes if your breeder tags, the  you also need to add an additional tag
 
You cannot remove the old tags either as Article 16 states
16. No person may, unless authorised by the Scottish Ministers, remove or deface an eartag or tattoo applied under this Order.
 
Does it make sense - not really, but who ever thought the EU was there to make sensible rules!
 
(similar wording exists in both the English and welsh versions of the regulation, and from memeory the same is true in NI)
 

[harry]

driving back after unloading my pigs i relised i hadnt tagged them at all........ got home phoned them they said it didnt matter as they slap mark themselves with a heavy duty slapper, so didnt have to go back and tag them,.

[Weaner]

Through no fault of my own I sent 3 batchs to the abbatoir with the wrong herd number over about 2 years and nobody picked it up.
Andy

[Simon O]

I had similar problem; only original breeders tag/number on, and I was worried I would need to put my own on too - but based on previous posting of Oakland pigs where it said that even though officially you need your own tag you might get away with it I phoned the abattoir (Wishaw) and they were happy to accept the original breeders tag. Saved time expense and hassle and a good reason to get tagged weaners, if raising weaners is all you are going to do. By the way Wishaw abattoir was very helpful to me as a first-timer, and I know I got my own pigs back as the correct tags were in the ears!

[oaklandspigs]

Neither Abattoir or State Veterinary Service or Meat Hygiene Service will care unless or until there is an issue.  Eg your pigs show some disease in meat, a medicine trace check fails, or someone has an non-id or wrong id’d pigs and SVS or MHS start cross checking to reconcile whats in the pens with the paperwork.   Or someone else has a pig with similar no. and causes confusion (eg if you use breeders tags and breeder or other customer he sells to uses same abattoir as you and you both have pigs in that day). Even then it is unlikely, but it is possible, hence you run a small risk.
More likely this may be picked up is on an SPS check, or a Trading Standards or AHVLS Check of your movement book, all of which if done properly (and most are) will pick it up and may (or may not) action – may well be classed as an intentional SPS breach, so fine and reduced SPS for that year, or fine under PRIMO 2011 – or of course both.
There is of course a high likelihood that at some stage in the future Defra will run a check against the E-aml database to see who's using the wrong numbers, and may (or may not!) take retrospective action – Defra always seem keen to be displaying to the EU that they are finding wrongdoers !
 
By the by - if you do ask breeder to tag and then simply let these be used when you go to the abattoir, you do increase the risk that you'll not get your own pigs back - for the simple reason if other people who buy from that breeder also do this, then the rest of the same litter will be ready about the same time, and with many abattoirs only doing pigs once a week, it is entirely possible that several lots arrive on the same day with the same number - and given four pigs on the hook with the same tag no.s and two customers sending two pigs each, the chances of mix up are increased.  Maybe unlikely, but just a thought!