[plumseverywhere]

Sixpence, our whether kid, is now nearly 7 months old and strong as an ox. We've had him on the collar and lead since day 2 really but he has no manners and seems to think that its funny to pull me down hill, on wet grass on my bum.  How do you train your goats to walk nicely (like his mum does) ?  I have a rope head collar that I use on the sheep - could I try that?
Its got to the point where I feel nervous about ever leaving the holding with him as we are on a hill and I have to lead the goats down a gravel path (on a slope!) and you can imagine what I'm scared of 

[SallyintNorth]

I have no idea whether dog psychology works on goats, so please ignore me if this is a stupid thing to say, but with dogs my favourite technique is:

When they pull, you stop.  When the lead is loose, you walk on. 
When they pull, you stop.  When the lead is loose, you walk on. 
When they pull, you stop.  When the lead is loose, you walk on. 

repeat until you only stop because you want to.  If you are 100% consistent, the first walk takes an hour and doesn't get to the bottom of the garden  but by the end of a week they should be walking nicely on a loose lead.

I don't use any words at all while doing this; I find while they're learning, any word that means 'get moving / walkies' makes them so excited they inevitably lunge forward - so then it meant "get your throat tugged and Mum stands like a stone with an expression of thunder" - result : confusion and frustration.

If you use no verbal signs at all, they get the message pretty quickly.

I look forward to learning more about goat psychology... 

[ballingall]

Haven't really had an issue with one that age pulling. With the opposite and not wanting to go with you and digging heels in, yes, had plenty of that. How often do you have him on the collar and lead?


Beth

[plumseverywhere]

3 or 4 times a week (weather depending)

Frustrating because his mum is so good, she walks slowly and gently and if I see her go to walk towards something she shouldn't (eg. my runner beans) I just say "ah, puffin...NO..." and she stops!

[jinglejoys]

Same as suggested above.As Pat says about trailer loading "Never wait till you are due at a show to find out your horse won't load" i.e do the groundwork first and don't wait till you are in a hurry.Goats are smart and quick to learn so take the sessions a little at a time.Never force them they are very left brain so as suggested just wait for them to "get it"....never known it take more than two days    THEN you can start the agility classes

[plumseverywhere]

I love the idea of that approach SITN - looking forward to giving it a go now. It makes sense.

Pat talks sense JJ  - and this is what's worrying me. I'd kind of said I'd take a goat to nursery for the kids *human ones* to meet a real one as they are learning Billy goats gruff. It aint gonna happen this year now! Sixpence will be half way to town if I try 

[chickenfeed]

use the head collar (most people that show males will opt for a head halter rather than collar) or better still if he has a beard you can get a full grown male to walk like a lamb by leading him by the beard 

[Anke]

Yes I would also use a head collar, it throws them off balance a bit more than a lead. My dog will always pull a lead if on a collar, but on a halter (round her body though - don't think you can get the goat equivalent of that) she walks perfectly...
Also as Balllingal says, we usually have the "four feet on the ground and NOT moving scenario" with our (female) kids..
I have never tried to walk my wethers, as they usually only have one journey off the holding.... However I found the BT boy this year is quite a lot (head) stronger than the GG's and very pushy...
Hope you get him sorted...

[deepinthewoods]

i know nothing about trainig goats or dogs for theat matter but noticed you said the mother walks well on the lead. could you walk them at the same time? so mum shows kid what to do?

[plumseverywhere]

I might try that DITW. Milli was able to hold Sixpence for a while but he's big now, however she can lead his mother so between us we can spend some time with the pair of them.

[Lesley Silvester]

I have the same problem with mine.  Admittedly I didn't start training at a young age.  I used to take Flo out to the garage area behind our garden, where there is loads of grass and weeds but I wouldn't dare take the others.

[plumseverywhere]

Well today we have a different goat kid.  Sixpence has been walking on his head collar and lead and we've gone from mr stubborn who sunk to his knees and grimaced to mr jump-uppy who wanted to knock us over to Mr Gentleman and I'm very happy.
My 10 year old and I put kid and mother on leads, she led the way (nanny goat) to show him how. After half an hour in his paddock of shenanigans and stopping when he pulled, starting when lead was slack again, he suddenly clicked!
we did everything that was suggested on this thread and I'm so pleased.
I even led him down the gravel path I was scared of, to the front lawn to dead head my rose bush   

[little blue]

Plums, have you a photo of Sixpence in his head collar?
Not decided whether we want them for our girls or just collars....   Do you think they are better? (I don't like the thought of them pulling & doing damage to their necks/throats)

[jinglejoys]

If the goats don't pull they can't do damage   Mind you I think you'll find most of the pulling problems caused with collors is because like dogs the collors are used wrong,they are supposed to be at the TOP of the neck not at the bottom.A lot of people put the collor on let it slip down to the bottom of the neck and wonder why the goat can pull.
   Same as a harness that seems to be the in thing...harness's are for animals to PULL in like sledge dogs.tracking dogs,pit bulls and guide dogs!

[SallyintNorth]

Well done plums!  How lovely to hear about it all coming right!

I
 agree about the harness, jj, at least in dogs of that persuasion - huskies and the like.

I have misgivings about collars on the top part of the neck; it was explained to me by a dog trainer that the reason that works is that any pressure is on the wings of the vertebrae at the base of the skull - and it's very painful.     I prefer psychology.