[morri2]

OMG!  Have just been to NSA ram sale in Builth Wells - awful weather, arrogant farmers, all round bad day .  I took four lovely Polled Dorset rams - two of which were really good - sold the best two for a ridiculous price.  There were some beautiful Hampshire Downs, Southdowns and a few more Dorsets (not one horned breed, I noticed) and they went for a song.  All the buyers were interested in were the commercial breeds - Texel/Beltex/Charrolais.  All those which, from the rear, and often from the front, resemble pigs.  Perhaps I'm just old fashioned, but I think this is a sad downturn for the native breeds.  The punters were the most unpleasant lot I've ever come across.  The guy who bought my lovely Dorsets for a pittance actually came up to me and asked for 'a bit of luck' (I assume this means I should give him some money  - could someone fill me in on this??) My OH nearly punched him.  He told him he'd already had his luck when he bought my two best rams for next to nothing.  If this is a tradition, then I think its a bit misplaced when you've bought something which is clearly well below what its worth.

Anyway - I'm mortified that such a horrible man  has bought my lovely tame, good natured rams,  so I've decided now that good homes are my priority - I'm going to give the other two away to good homes if anyone is interested - they will be good tups for someone who will appreciate them.  See my ad in the Marketplace.  I have some pics I can email too. 

[woollyval]

Having met Morri and her lovely lovely rams yesterday I can vouch that they looked very nice! If I had commercials/ x breds or Dorsets I would jump at the chance of one....and pay her some good money for them! Quick....whilst you have the chance!

[goosepimple]

I agree Morri, Carlisle rare breeds auction on Saturday was full of bad tempered, rushed people, often quite rude.  My best ducks which I had kept for this mart rather than Lanark, went for half the price they did at Lanark (advantage at Lanark is that they bidding is at the cages rather than blind in the ring).  I wish I had put a reserve on them, I would have taken them home and sold them privately.  So, like you, I am going to sell privately from now on - have put 4 enquiries off until end of next month so I could do Carlisle first, shouldn't have bothered. 

[Fleecewife]

Oh Morri2 I hate marts as well and I think it's worth selling your animals privately or through the rare breeds sales just to avoid them.  At something like the big ram sales they really are for the commercial boys.
 
The luck money thing is a tradition and we have been in the same situation as you with people demanding it when they have paid peanuts for animals.  To my mind it's something you give when you are pleased with your price and pleased with your buyer.
 
Try not to be too upset about your rams - most of the time they will be out doing what rams do and won't see their new owner.  Their harems are likely to be much bigger than with a small breeder, so they will be very happy 

[robert waddell]

i was going to start a separate thread but this is as close to it as makes no difference
 
just informed today of two sheep breeders one offered to buy the others tup at the RHS and offered a very good price for it  they refused saying they would get more for it at stirling   it ended up selling for less than half what was offered  no wonder the buyer had a smile from ear to ear
 
any way the luck and buyers     sad to say they will be going for killing    these buyers buy for processors and the luck aspect is there bonus    some get a percentage others get a fixed price per animal  traditionally if the buyer did not get any luck they would pick fault with the animal and return it or get a reduction in the price
 
although last year at a pig sale the vendor waved a twenty pound note saying this was the luck aspect after the bidding faltered   it worked she got an extra £40
 
the luck aspect can make a difference for future buyers  as well  give it and get the demand for your stock    refuse it and get a lower price 

[feldar]

It's a buyers market out there! unfortunately they can have you over a barrel.I hate markets, always have. I leave that side of things to my OH who has been going since he was a kid and  knows a lot of buyers.
It really makes a difference to get your face out there and get known. To just go occassionally has them baying for your blood.
Unfortunately Down breeds are a bit out of fashion at the moment. Commercial buyers especially in Builth would want high index rams who will finish lambs quickly. Many societies really push the SRS scheme and Farmers want to know what they are buying these days and want the figures to back it up.You can't blame them, farming is a lot more technical these days than just throwing the boy in with the girls.
Continentals are in fashion and do the job ( don't get me wrong so will a Down breed but they don't command the high prices a continental will)
We have Hampshire Downs and only ever keep enough rams that we know we can sell, the rest go out through as lambs. But i know breeders who hold back lots and flood the market and still moan like hell when they can't sell them.
Don't dispair it is still early for buying rams, sometimes people come at the last minuit to buy or miss out at market so look elsewhere.

[Anke]

Caroline I commiserate, although not being able to offer anything in the way of advice really... I was disappointed at the whole feel of Carlisle sale on Saturday - too much of a family day out rather than a proper sale event. Few people bothered to come and speak to sellers (I was trying to buy only, but ended up going home with an empty trailer) or examine the animals closely.
I will try and go down the private route more than auction marts (for breeding stock).
PS.: But I do actually like Texel and Beltex tups  ... just a bit on the heavy side for me to handle... and I do have one for my commercial ewes...
 

[Mallows Flock]

*Gasp*... I hate to hide my Charollias' eyes from that.... like pigs??? LOL 
That's why I don't do markets... well, one of the reasons!
I am shocked they didn't like Poll Dorsets tho...nice terminal sire breed, grow to weight quickly and large carcass size.. some just don't like woolly faces/legs tho!
'Luck' I believe is quite a northern tradition... in the seventies it used to be £1 but farmers prefered it in coins, not notes. Notes were deemed not-lucky. More superstition, I think.

[SteveHants]

It isn't really about whether you 'like' the wooly pigs or not as a commercial sheep farmer - its about what your customers want, and if their progeny is what the meat buyers want at market - thats what you buy. I can't bring myself to buy a texel or beltex, cos I'm told I'd have to start pulling lambs and I feel that charly lambs would be too 'soft' for my system - so I have SufTexs.... I'll tell you how they do next year.


Farming is a business, and you'd be daft to buy a ram who you knew would give you less value for his offspring.


Having said that - there are a few big users of poll dorsets about, mostly for out of season lambing, you might do better selling them off-farm.


For my costings; I always value all my sheep as meat, and then if I get more for them, either as breeding ewes or stock rams, its a bonus, but I know I can keep my business running without doing that.


I don't like breeding stock auctions/shows either - but I don't think thats any secret. 

[robert waddell]

well i weight record my sheep and had the figures on the pen      he only got to meat price   so he is hanging as i type    he was past tense a Hampshire down   next year the tup lambs will go as spring lambs

[kaz]

I've only ever gone to the Bluith ram sale once and said never again. It was packed with some downright nasty people just looking for bargains at the sellers expense.
I now only ever buy and sell privately or at my particular downs breed sale, where you do have some idea as to who these animals are going to.
Don't under sell your stock as it is hard work to breed them and look after them and at the end of the day that costs money.

[wallyward]

 
hi
 
some of the prices paid for the "commerial" tups are out of this world!
 
full market report here
http://farmingeye.com/
 
scroll down to the builth sale

[morri2]

Well, thanks all, I'm glad its not just me.  Mallowsflock - sorry, nothing personal to your sheep.    

I sold eight rams last year, privately, which fetched three times per ram what I wound up with yesterday.  I am definitely sticking to that method in future. 

I'm not a commercial farmer, I'm like many others on here - a smallholder and hobby farmer.  I actually prefer to keep sheep for fleeces (Bowmont and Bowmont x Dorset) than anything else, so I think I will be moving more in that direction now.  As far as my Dorset's go, I can't bring myself to start keeping sheep I don't like - my Dorsets are so docile and friendly, and so easy to handle.  I witnessed some amazing feats of showjumping by some of the continental rams yesterday - two went clear over the side of the ring!  You wouldn't get a Dorset doing that.   But it appears that the native breeds are becoming more and more minority breeds as farming (and economic instability) leads us in the direction of more profit per capita, which is a terrible shame.  Surely we can't all throw in our lot with the continental breeds  .  I'm sure (from the butcher/meat eater's point of view) the native meat is far tastier.   Perhaps we should have more 'smallholder' sales or 'native breed' sales so we smallholders with 'proper' sheep can get fairer prices. Perhaps invite a few chefs to attend and lay on some samples (not a bad suggestion from a veggie - don't you think? ) Just a thought !!

[Rosemary]

Maybe the native breed societies need to help small breeders get better at marketing their produce - or is there a role for RBST in this?

Please don't give up your Dorset Downs :-)

[Fleecewife]

I am absolutely positive that there is a place for our native breeds of sheep here in their native country.  Continental breeds have been developed on the ....continent which has a different climate and different eating habits.
 
Here we have native breeds which cover just about anything sheep can be used for, with every trait from hardiness to meatiness and loads in between, all with the added advantage of being adapted to our environment.   Add to that the fact that the food fashion nowadays is not for a huge Sunday roast eaten around the dining room table with the whole family present, but for small roasting joints to suit 2 - 4 people, plus chops, sausages and burgers which are quick to thaw and prepare after a hard day at work.  This says to me that the larger continental breeds will decline in usefulness and farmers will be looking to reintroduce more taste and a slightly smaller size, but more animals per acre, into their sheep.
 
Just my opinion