[janeislay]

Can someone please explain the rules about slaughtering last year's lambs that are now about 15 months old and have their "big teeth".
Having left my commercial lambs to grown on slowly, totally grass fed and with no jags, dips or doses, they looked a super bunch of shearlings wedders.
However they only made just short of £40 a head for the 12 of them and I was told it was because they have their big teeth and therefore are more expensive to slaughter, as they have to be "spined". (Presumably like the 20 month rule for cattle).
I can't find any mention of this ruling by googling every possibility; could someone please tell me at what age I should sell future sheep - although they won't be commercials, they'll be my new breed 
Jane

[lachlanandmarcus]

"Spinal cord from sheep aged over 12 months (or that have one permanent incisor erupted) is classified as a specified risk material (SRM) and is prohibited from use in food. This is a precautionary measure to reduce the possibility of BSE infectivity entering the food chain" (Food Standards Agency)
So if raising slow maturing rare breeds you are more likely to be stuck with the extra charge/lower value as many are most suitable for killing over 12 months old, unlike the commercial fast growing breeds which can be finished under 12 months.

[landroverroy]

 You've been unlucky. I've had some that still had only baby teeth at 15 months old, and so got a good price. It obviously depends on the breed - I think these were either WelshX or ShetlandX.
However, now you know the problem, you have to target your sheep appropriately. Presumably these that you just sold were born in May. So in future you have to aim for them being away by the next May. So  you need to keep them on good grass while it's growing, worm regularly, and don't let them lose weight in winter. It's easy to think "I'm growing them slowly so I'll just let them tick over in winter". But if you don't feed  them sufficiently well to at least keep on the weight they already have, then you've wasted the grass they ate in summer. In Spring fertilise your grass as soon as it's warm enough for some growth, ie Feb or March. You should then have a good growth of grass in April/May to get them fat for market.
If this isn't practical, then sell them as stores in autumn. You should get at least £40 for decent lambs - in fact nearer £60 round us this year. So then you've got more grass for your ewes and lambs the next year and your lambs should do even better.

[Fleecewife]

What will your new breed be Janeislay?  If it's a primitive then there's no point in trying to fatten them over the winter as they barely hold their weight, and any concentrates are wasted.  We keep ours healthy over the winter with good hay, grazing if there is any, Tup&Lamb coarse mix when there's snow lying and a molassed licky bucket.  We don't apply any fertiliser to our pastures, partly because it's expensive, partly because that's not how we farm, partly because the grass is usually under snow in Feb and March, and most of all because the lush grass produced by artificial fertilisers can cause scouring in the stock.  That's appropriate for here, high up in Southern Scotland, but other regimes will suit different areas.
 We send them off in August ie 16 months, by which time they are as big as they can get before there's the risk of 'taint' - ours are mostly entire males.
 
The extra cost of splitting the carcases is minimal, maybe as much as £2 each.  I'll try to remember to check on Monday when we get our boys back from the butcher.
 
Particularly with a rare breed, if that's what you will be keeping, rather than send them through an ordinary market, you are far better to find a direct buyer for your meat such as a top-class restaurant, where the chef will appreciate rare breed hogget and will pay a good price (which he will recoup from his customers)  Cutting out the middle man, especially if the middle man doesn't understand the special qualities of hogget, will give both you and your buyer a better deal.
 
We sell to friends and a small group of 'in the know' customers as we don't produce enough hogget to supply a restaurant, but we and our family do eat a lot.

[Mallows Flock]

Have i read this wrong?
£40 for 15 month old lambs? FORTY POUNDS? And these are commercials?
I know it varies a bit at differing times of the year but my one and only sheep I ever took to market was a wether who was just over a year old and he made £96.50.. he still had baby teeth but they were super wobbly! He was lleyn x. I was told tht if he had bean a little leaner (he was a greedy fat thing) he would have made over £100.
How do the old ewes make such good money then at market?
Does anyone have any idea roughly how much 5 month old commercial ewe lambs are making atm?

[shep53]

The general rule at markets is ,up to 30th june  under one year old, after 1st july is classed as an adult . BUT  from march onwards all hoggets have their mouths checked any loose or missing teeth classses them as an adult .  Breed and feeding affect the age at which teeth are lost my cheviot gimmers/shearlings mostly still have lamb teeth now but if sold for killing would be classed as adults

[janeislay]

Many thanks for the replies - especially yours, Fleecewife - and love your website. 
My so-called new breed are called "Vikings" and they're just a mix of Hebridean and Icelandic.  See pic below if I can attach it !
I now understand about the 12 month rule and had actually intended to sell at 12 months.  This year it was impossible to get them gathered then.  Thanks goodness these were the last of my white sheep - I've managed to sell the ewes and gimmers to my neighbour at good prices.
In future I'll only be keeping my native types.   I don't use any fertilisers or chemicals at all and only the pure Icelandics get fed in winter - we very rarely get snow like you do, Fleecewife !  (My daughters both live not too far from you and my word, do they get snow !)
Going back to the Lleyns, it was very annoying to be put second on the list - especially when I only phoned in two days before the sale.  And I also wondered why the auctioneer nodded to one of the dealers - who then started bidding and bought them.  It was all a bit odd.
Attached is a photo of a moorit Viking with its black Hebridean X Icelandic mum in front.
Jane
www.ellisterislay.co.uk
 
 

[SteveHants]

It must just have been your timing, I have had almost £90 for commercial cull ewes in the past and they are well over 12mos.

[landroverroy]

Funny you should say that Janeislay, about the auctioneer and the dealer. I used to find that with one of  the auctioneers at our local market (Selby). In fact he was renowned for it. It's best to see what prices comparable stock are fetching, so you have an idea what yours should get. I always stand in the pen with mine so he can see me and I have refused to sell in the past when he's tried to "give" them away. Strangely enough, when he's started auctioning mine again, they've reached a decent price. Now it doesn't happen, but I wouldn't take my sheep in, even now, if I didn't have time to stand with them till sold.

[SteveHants]

Have i read this wrong?
£40 for 15 month old lambs? FORTY POUNDS? And these are commercials?
I know it varies a bit at differing times of the year but my one and only sheep I ever took to market was a wether who was just over a year old and he made £96.50.. he still had baby teeth but they were super wobbly! He was lleyn x. I was told tht if he had bean a little leaner (he was a greedy fat thing) he would have made over £100.
How do the old ewes make such good money then at market?
Does anyone have any idea roughly how much 5 month old commercial ewe lambs are making atm?

Last year sheep were making exceptionally good money - its about £60/head this year for fat lambs.

[JUNIOR MEMBER pufflepets]

Jeez.... those are rubbish prices.
I will definitely be selling privately! LOL.

[SteveHants]

Well make sure they haven't read the market reports then.......

[domsmith]

Just to add to that, killing a lamb costs around £12. a splitter is £12 plus the splitting which should be no more than a couple of quid.

so someone saying its the extra killing cost is talking rubbish!

[Dougal]

Hmm. This stinks. I was selling old lean ewes at over £40 the other week. The teeth rule is that if the sheep have an adult tooth erupted then the carcass must be split. Makes butterfly chop a sod to try and make up!

[janeislay]

I agree - it does stink.  And the fact that they put me in second on the list gave me no chance at all to see what other stock was making.
The auctioneer had been notifying me of their collection dates all year, which saves you having to wait around all day at the mart - and they give you a "fair price".  Which was always fair.  So why this time, did he say when I asked for the collection date, to put them into the mart as they'll sell well ?
Thank goodness that's me out of commercial sheep.  I only started breeding again because of the new abattoir, which meant I didn't have to send lambs to the mainland.  And now that's folded up 
As fleecewife said earlier, I do indeed want to find a niche market among hotels and people wanting extra flavour..........but what can you do without an abattoir ?
I always said I'd never use that mart again; I should have stuck by my principles !