[mab]

Hello all,


One of my Shetlands has developed a limp and having corralled her and had a closer look (yesterday), one of her toes has split & broken hoof up the inside front of the toe (if you follow). It was obviously quite sensitive and so I cleaned as best I could and sprayed it and talked to the vet yesterday, who said if she was still limping today I should give her a jab of Tetroxyl LA.


Well she's still limping a bit so I had a look at the bottle and note it's for Intramuscular injection; I've only done SQ before.


Any advice - where to jab? (she's a small Shetland) How deep should the needle go?


'course I could take her to the vet tomorrow but that adds another stress to her, plus it's another day without the ABs.


thx

[Sbom]

It normally takes a few days before they stop limping, if you've cleaned and sprayed it then I would wait a few days then check the foot again to be sure it's healing/drying up. I wouldn't jab for a bad foot unless it was really bad as the clean/trim/spray routine normally sorts it.

[mab]

Thanks Sbom,


Well it was the Vets suggestion - there was (yesterday) a faint bad smell to the foot - at least before I cleaned and that may have influenced her decision.


I must admit I'm being a bit neurotic - this is my first sheep hoof problem in 2 years - and I doubt I got all the crud out.


I'm torn between leaving her be, and catching her again to have another look/clean (had light drizzle all am) - but catching her means she's going to try running on it.


She's still wandering round & eating; and the hoof doesn't slow her down when she thinks she's going to be caught 

[SallyintNorth]

The very best medicine for bad feet is exercise, so don't you worry about having to chase her - in fact, chase her about anyway, it gets the circulation going properly into the toes. 

If you want to do the IM injection, the easiest place is the back of the back leg - the fleshy buttock / ham / gigot muscle.  Don't do this in a fat lamb, it may leave an abcess and the leg would be condemned.  But in a keeping ewe you'd be okay doing it there. 

Another good spot is inside the thigh, but the same applies about not doing this with a fat lamb or sheep heading for slaughter anytime soon.  For this one, tip her onto her backside, press the fleshy thigh to find the leg bone, then stick the needle in well behind the bone.

The spot most farmers and vets use, and which you can use in fat lambs too, is the top of the hip.  There's a fleshy triangle between the spine and the point of the hip bone; I could show you but find I can't easily describe it, hopefully someone more articulate will be along shortly...

I use a 1 1/4" needle for I/M in a sheep.  1 1/4 x 16, I think it is.  Someone posted a 'which needle for which jag' list once, couldn't find the one I wanted but this one from Fleecewife is useful.

[SteveHants]

its hard to know when to interfere in cases like that, you are right, you may well cause it more stress by catching it up again. I'd give it a bit and see how it goes.


Edited to add - since sally posted in the meantime, you could do either thing. I wouldn't but thats just me, if the sheep was moving about.


Confusing, innit? 

[mab]

   yes - but it's made worse 'cos I just don't like needles - the thought of sticking on into a living thing makes my toes curl, and I have a tendency to dither about & do nothing when I'm unsure what to do.

The hind leg's fine - she's not really a 'stock' sheep, more of a pet - or at lease the companion of my very tame ewe. The only needles I've got are 18g/1" so that choice is made by default - but you surely wouldn't push it in all the way? I was imagining 1/4 - 1/2" to be sure it's into the muscle.


well she still seems perky enough and is busy standing & scratching her neck on an old trailer ATM, so maybe I should not try injecting yet     , but am thinking I ought to catch her tomorrow am or this eve, just to have another look/sniff/clean - Sally, not to doubt you (about making her run) but where I have to catch her is gravelly, so I may need to think of a different location... 


Good news is it should be dry and sunnyish for the next few days       (At last!)

[SallyintNorth]

18 x 1" should be fine.  Yes all the way unless she's a really scrawny individual; she should have at least 1" of muscle!  Push the plunger down steadily but not fast.  You need to be positive and confident or it will transmit to the sheep and not go well...  To be honest they mostly don't seem to notice injections at all, unless the med itself stings. (Which a/bs usuallly don't, and I/M usually doesn't either; sub-cu is more likely to sting, I find.)

And no, even I wouldn't chase her about too much on gravel when she's got a sore foot!   

[YorkshireLass]

Just to add - when the needle's in, draw BACK the plunger to make sure you've not got a vein by accident - if there's no blood then you're good to go. If you suck out some blood, pull the needle out and try again 

[woollyval]

Most sheep won't stand still long enough to draw back!!!

Just be aware there is a nerve you mustn't hit and if you go for the upper outer part of the back leg you will be fine....I use the short stoutish needles so they don't go too deep and don't break if sheep goes nuts!!!

[Fleecewife]

I wouldn't inject her at this stage, but I might use something like Golden Hoof or other foot bath.
 
If you are going to inject you absolutely must be confident and firm - you will cause far more discomfort if you dither and just scratch the surface.  It's a good idea to sit the sheep on her rump, then lean over and bring up a back foot to bend the leg - this relaxes the muscle and makes sure she doesn't run away.
 
If your needle is only an inch long then for an IM injection it goes in all the way, without a pause.  A trick to fool the sheep into not noticing the actual needle is to tap its skin at the injection site a few times with your nail, then straightaway stick in the needle.  The deeper in you go the less likely you are to cause the animal discomfort.

[smiley bucket]

practice injecting an orange and, as above, draw back to ensure you are not in a vein. Nae bother

[omnipeasant]

When you inject in the inner thigh you will have her sat on her bum which helps to steady them for the injection. I am another squeamish one at injecting animals so I sympathise.  I had no problem injecting people though when I was a nurse.

[Calvadnack]

Try this site for useful diagrams and instructions. 


http://www.danekeclublambs.com/Injections.html


I use 1/2" needles on my shetlands.  Antibiotics do seem to sting, so I just give the leg a good rub and say sorry !

[SallyintNorth]

Helpful website    thanks for posting.

I use 1/2" needles on my shetlands.  Antibiotics do seem to sting, so I just give the leg a good rub and say sorry !

I know Shetlands are smaller and less muscley than Texels, and I don't know which antibiotic you're using, but I do wonder whether the short (1/2") needle is delivering the dose into the subcutaneous space and that's why they are reacting?  The ones we use don't sting if the dose is given into the muscle.  Combivit, which is a Vitamin boost which can be given sub-cu or i-m, definitely stings given sub-cu and doesn't given i-m.  (So I give it i-m unless I need it active pronto  .)

[mab]

Well the good news is she's limping much less today  - though not recovered yet.

Thanks everyone for the advice (and the link to that website  ) but it looks like I might be off the hook - for now.

Although, I suppose if I don't have to do one for a long while I'll end up having to remind myself about what I've learned about IM injection when I do need to do it (it'll happen eventually). I'll have to search out this thread and reread  .