[kumquat]

Following on from Sally's new aquisistions...


We've got 4 Shetlands and 2 Soays and more than likely some castle milk moorits soon (2 or 3). The majority will be first time lambers and i was thinking which tup to put in with them?
Which tup would be your choice? Shetland, Soay or CM Moorit?  


Lots of Shetland owners around me so that would be the easiest but is it OK to put him with first time Soays ? i know size difference isn't massive but is it a factor to consider?


i'm looking to build up the flock so the lambs would be kept


Hope this makes sense?
Jon


(thanks to Sally and Tiz for their thoughts in Sallys thread)

[colliewoman]

Personally I would say Shetland, because;
A) You will have your pick of the rams/ram lambs available.
B) The 2 crosses are both lovely, I have Shetland X CM but I think I would say that the Soay X Shetland my friend had are even prettier!
C) They will all taste amazing.
D) They will sell easily if you don't want to keep all the lambs

[SallyintNorth]

We've got 4 Shetlands and 2 Soays and more than likely some castle milk moorits soon (2 or 3).

  Good, I knew resistance was pointless!

Lots of Shetland owners around me so that would be the easiest but is it OK to put him with first time Soays ? i know size difference isn't massive but is it a factor to consider?

At the sale there were some Beltex x Soay lambs; I have it on the best authority  that the tup was the Beltex.  Very nice lambs, would make good breeders of fat lambs or would sell well as store lambs, much nicer than the Texdale, Texwick or similar (Texel x from Swaledale, Herdwick or other hill breed ewe).

The couple who bought the CM ewe lambs (and then very kindly agreed to sell me the two I wanted) buy up all sorts of primitives and primitive crosses, including Soays, and put them all to a Texel x Beltex.  Never have any problems, they said.

Not suggesting you use a Beltex or Texel, only meaning to demonstrate that primitives, including Soays, seem able to take a larger tup and produce sensibly sized lambs.  Partly due to the wide pelvis of the more primitive types, no doubt. 

I guess if it was practical to let the Soay girls have pure Soays for their first time, it would be a good plan.  But I'm not sure I'd want to put Soay on the other breeds, (even though I know that size isn't everything  - but it does matter  ) so if it were me I would probably use the Shetland on them all.  But I haven't had Soays so, like you, I'd want confirmation from people who've actually done it that it would be okay for their first time.

[kumquat]

Thanks for your thought Donna, i have to admit a Shetland x Soay does sound appealing (and tasty)

  Good, I knew resistance was pointless!

You're a bad influence 

I guess if it was practical to let the Soay girls have pure Soays for their first time, it would be a good plan. 

I've got the space so could have two tups and keep the Soays pure. Complicates things....

If it were me i would probably use the Shetlands on them all. But I haven't had Soays so, like you, I'd want confirmation from people who've actually done it that it would be okay for their first time   

I'm hoping someone has done this as it will keep things simple.
Plenty to ponder.....

[SallyintNorth]

  Good, I knew resistance was pointless!

You're a bad influence 

Nah, I'm a good influence!   

[Fleecewife]

If you have the option to breed the Soays pure for their first lambing, then it would be best to do so, but after that a Shetland cross would work well - the offspring are hard to tell apart from a pure Shetland except for a thinner, cleaner head and the odd spot here and there.
 
Having said that, Shetland lambs are very small too, so the first time Soay would probably manage to deliver them with ease.  I have only ever had a lambing problem with one Soay birthing an enormous though purebred lamb.  Because Soays are so small, even my hand barely fit and we both ended up badly bruised but triumphant.
 
I have used Shetlands over various breeds - Gotland, Jacob, Hebridean, Soay, big mixed downland, even Shetlands  .  They all seem to give good sized lambs, nice and tasty but also with lovely fleeces (not so much the Heb and Soay, but still more spinnable than the purebred version)
 
I am unhappy about using a Beltex on a Soay ewe although I know of breeders who do it.  It's not only the lambing but the mating itself I worry about - how can a tiny Soay carry a huge fat Beltex tup 

[Brucklay]

We had pure Castlemilks and Castlemilk x shetlands this year and all ewe's managed fine - no help required and although all the lambs grew well the x's I would say did very well - just my 10p worth from a beginner in this field. This year although we now have a shetland tup I will still be tupping the non-registered shetlands with the moorit as they were lovely lambs.

[Dougal]

If your gimmers are well grown I doubt that you'll have any worries with using any of those breeds of ram. I know so commercial farmers in Aberdeenshire who buy up all the cheap primitive ewes that come through the mart and use a suffok tup on them so they can obviously cope pretty well.

[kumquat]

Thanks for your thoughts everyone. Reckon i'm going to go with a Shetland tup and keep a close eye on the Soays 
Roll on November....

Cheers
Jon

[Fleecewife]

Roll on April - then you'll see what you get