[Moleskins]

Problem is Rustyme you or I are deterred from killing the OH (even though they sometimes deserve it    ) because we don't fancy the idea of prison ...

That is NOT in the slightest bit funny 

Sorry 'bout that, if you've seen my other posts it's down to accounting syndrome. 

[jaykay]

If anyone hurt my family, I would wish all the torture of Hell on them - but that's vengeance. When I read about the horrible things folk do to others, I think "bring back hanging / birching" etc but in the cold light of day, I don't think it's right. It would make society as bad as the perpetrators of crime.

And on prisoners rights, they are still human beings. Some repent and change. And the earlier point by smallholderinthecity about taking away the rights of one group may be a slippery slope - offenders today. Who tomorrow? the disabled, Jews, homosexuals?

Exactly this 

[plumseverywhere]

And the step grandad of Tia Sharpe (yet to be convicted) When I read a little of his story I actually said to hubby that I felt sorry for his childhood. I think what Smallholder in the City is saying, and from his experience, those who go onto commit crimes of this magnitude must have been through some awful experiences in their formative years - either that or be born with an awful illness that we can never understand or see.
My only experience in Cat A prisons is from speaking to my friends BIL and he really is a shadow of his former self now. He said he laid in bed terrified at night and saw men beaten, one slit his own throat and you had to watch your back 24/7 - that's not cushy! but that's Cat A, don't know what other prisons are like.
We would be stepping back in time to reintroduce hanging, as Rosemary says it would be reminiscent of Hitlers ethnic cleansing again and we have moved on too far.

[Castle Farm]

Ethnic cleansing is going on everyday in other countries, so the leaders or the people that are raping and killing and cutting the hands off kids have had a bad childhood and need to take it out on someone.

If sending people to prison doesn't work, as re offend figures prove it doesn't why are we wasting money on it.
As for druggies. You lock them in a cell and let them cold turkey it out of thier system.

[Moleskins]

There's been a few comments about people having bad childhood experiences, this then leads them to be abusive adults.
I know two people who were abused as children, both of them are well adjusted adults. The man who was sexually abused as a child is one of the few people I've counted as a true friend, rather than an acquaintance.
The other, a woman now, was beaten as a child.
Lets not be too soft on those who go on to repeat what was done to them.
Childhood experiences can and do leave scars but those who've been abused have a choice about what they do in later life.

[Hermit]

This is what I cant understand , why do arguments involving the death penalty get brought down to Hitler , Jews and the disabled etc .  I like to think I can tell the difference between a child torturer and a religion. this happens on the other forums I look at. The death penalty for murder has nothing to do with ethnic cleansing or people in wheelchairs . This is one of those arguments that can go on forever until the time comes when it is actually voted on and then we can all have our own opinion and say.

[Rosemary]

This is what I cant understand , why do arguments involving the death penalty get brought down to Hitler , Jews and the disabled etc .  I like to think I can tell the difference between a child torturer and a religion. this happens on the other forums I look at. The death penalty for murder has nothing to do with ethnic cleansing or people in wheelchairs . This is one of those arguments that can go on forever until the time comes when it is actually voted on and then we can all have our own opinion and say.

My comment on this thread (I think that's what you are referring to) wasn't about the death penalty per se- it was about human rights of offenders and how if you take them away, who's next. I'm well aware that there's a difference between a child torturer and a religious belief.

I still wouldn't support the death penalty though.

[rispainfarm]

I agree with jaykay, the people who do this as in tia sharpe etc are not wired up right. This could mean that mental problems they may have had when they were a child were compouded by type of childhood they had, ie abusive. No child is born bad, but I do believe behaviour patterns to a certain extent can be genetic in fact it has been proved. If a child is not right in the first place and borders on having mental health issues, incorrect parenting and/or a terrible childhood make the original problem ten times worse to such an extent it manifests itself into something quite dangerous.

[robert waddell]

well let us forget momentarily about the bones of this thread        not very many pepole will listen to a child    and children can be the worst murdering bastards that existed  children are bullied on a daily basis either through colour learing disability  parents or not   there social scale or there home location     just who does that child turn to    if the parents are observant they will see a change in there child   the teachers don't care  they are counting the days down to there retirement and if the child retaliates    they are the problem    little wonder that child goes on to be a major problem in latter life    and the finger always points to the bullied child it is there fault  plain and simple not the children that made there life hell not the teacher that was more interested clock watching  and maybe the parent or parents for having the audacity to breed in the first place         what i have found is the teachers that implement there anti bulling policy have no experience of being bullied eh how can they understand what is going through that child's mind  which in turn manifests itself into what rosemary describes as wanting to get even
 
 
education education education   well that involves teachers of a better calibre than are at present sitting in the classroom whittling there stick till they retire          and what about the people that have  lost fortunes homes businesses and everything else because these greedy bankers were shagging there customers  and other banks so that they could have a luxurious lifestyle  just because they have been raped by the system should they be locked away  for trying to exist

[rispainfarm]

You sound as if you have had experience of bullying robert

[plumseverywhere]

Robert, your post has brought tears to my eyes, it rings so true for a little lad I know. Bullied because of his background. Kids can be so cruel - they hear it from their parents to start with though and all this hatred and prejudice comes through generation after generation.
When the bullying is not dealt with efficiently by the school and when the parents of the bullies are not in tune with whats going on to deal with it the pain the bullied child goes through must build exactly as you say, into something more.

[robert waddell]

two of my sons have  the eldest was bullied by a little girl at primary when he eventually told us we told him leather the shite  out her he did and we got a phonecall your son is a disruptive element    but fair does the head teacher sorted it out   the same happened at secondary school   the same secondary school  as my next son went to  (incidentally the second son was very happy at primary and looking forward to secondary school) his excitement was short lived   the teachers hated him and us just where they get these idiots from that are entrusted with the education of our children is beyond me and they were told  this as well  and the amount of former pupils that say this school failed them is unbelievable    anyway john has an apprenticeship with a prestigious world wide manufacturer   no thanks to this school that should have been left demolished with the teachers made to pull it apart brick by brick with no tools

[Bionic]

My niece was bullied at school and the school dealt with it very nicely. They knew who the bully was but rather than pull her up on it directly, possibly making the situation worse for my niece, they head spoke to the whole class saying there was some bullying and could they all look out for each other. 
The bully recognised their time was up and my niece wasn't bullied again. 
Sally

[in the hills]

Bionic .... I'm glad your nieces problems were dealt with effectively.


Robert .... sad to hear of your experiences. Of course there are good and bad teachers and all the shades in between, just as in any profession, but as an ex primary teacher, I can honestly say that I always did my utmost to spot and deal with any problems in the classroom. I believe this was true of all my colleagues too. Perhaps I was lucky to work in a very supportive, caring school. I don't think that most teachers spend their time clock watching or waiting to retire!

[robert waddell]

one of my aunties was a primary school teacher then she applied for and got a headmistress post at holytown primary school   when she took over the school was the bottom performer in the area with no interest from the parents  she turned that school around all the children were happy and the parents supported the school and there children's activities   and it was a pleasure to meet pupils that passed through her time as headie (she had given them inspiration ) i did meet two them in the construction industry  and they thought the world of her
in the hills no they don't all wait for retirement some cant wait to get to the break to get a swig on there half bottle
 
anyway i am not excusing all the badness just saying that there could be underlying reasons and not all are exposed  when the s**t hits the fan and they retaliate