[smallholder in the city]

On a slight tangent (not specifically about Brady) I have worked in a high security hospital and yes the offenders I worked with had done terrible things and the vast majority had also suffered horrific abuse as children. That doesn't excuse their crimes and yes there are people who have suffered such abuse who don't offend but it did make me think about how society might try and adopt a preventative approach.
When it comes down refusing treatment for offenders; the punishment for crime is loss of freedom, which is no small thing, not removal of healthcare. Linked to this is the protection of the human rights of offenders. We all have rights and they are protected in law by the human rights act developed from the european convention on human rights. Why do we have such protection? because after the events of world war 2 the need to enshrine such rights in law was recognised with a hope that this would prevent such atrocities happening again in Europe.
Yes people try and abuse the intent of the law but I would far rather live in a country that protected the rights of all than a country that chooses not to protect anyone or to pick and choose who has rights. It may seem a simple thing to decide that offenders should not have rights but that is a slippery slope and whose to say whether future governments might decide other people don't deserve rights? For a chilling demonstration of how a legal framework can be manipulated watch the film Conspiracy (starring Kenneth Branagh) and think about how the events pictured may have been different if the european court and convention of human rights had been in place.   
Finally when it comes to psychopaths the rules that you and I use to live our lives and govern our behaviour go out of the window. It is a complex disorder the reality of which is often far removed from that described in film and literature. You can't understand why because it is so far removed from everyday understanding / experience.
I appreciate many people will not hold the same opinion as me and many will not have had the experiences that I have had due to my profession but I've yet to meet anyone who would rather be in prison than free or anyone who would rather be in a secure hospital than in prison.
 I'll just go back to reading my guardian now   

[RUSTYME]

Some of the comments show how near we are to the days of the witch hunts .
Humanitarian society ? My arse !
It is stated that upto 2 thirds of people driving on the road at any one time , are over the drink limit or out of their head on drugs , prescription ones account for about half . How many millions would that be in nick ? Doing their living hell ? How many on here drive a vehicle within 48 hours of drinking ? Quite a few , if not most ?
You just haven't been caught , you are lucky , so are the people that were anywhere near you , or in your car !
Remenber that pensioner , forgot to pay their tv licence ? 3 months  of living hell eh ? , or 100 lashes of the birch ?
No prescription drugs for prisoners ? What about someone with heart problems or diabetes , oh just let them die ! Why should tax payers pay for their drugs ? Yet again , money !
Some poor sod doing 6 months for not paying parking fines , who has a heart problem ,  is condemned to death ?
And there was me thinking the arseholes running this country were the bastards !
Workers to the left , the rest to the showers !
It would seem we are no better than the Nazis , have we not learned anything ? Vengeance rules , death to all offenders ! And people wonder why i want no part of this insane , corrupt society . Society ? Now there is a fecking joke !
Let he without sin ,  cast the first stone !

[RUSTYME]

Some of the comments show how near we are to the days of the witch hunts .
Humanitarian society ? My arse !
It is stated that upto 2 thirds of people driving on the road at any one time , are over the drink limit or out of their head on drugs , prescription ones account for about half . How many millions would that be in nick ? Doing their living hell ? How many on here drive a vehicle within 48 hours of drinking ? Quite a few , if not most ?
You just haven't been caught , you are lucky , so are the people that were anywhere near you , or in your car !
Remenber that pensioner , forgot to pay their tv licence ? 3 months  of living hell eh ? , or 100 lashes of the birch ?
No prescription drugs for prisoners ? What about someone with heart problems or diabetes , oh just let them die ! Why should tax payers pay for their drugs ? Yet again , money !
Some poor sod doing 6 months for not paying parking fines , who has a heart problem ,  is condemned to death ?
And there was me thinking the arseholes running this country were the bastards !
Workers to the left , the rest to the showers !
It would seem we are no better than the Nazis , have we not learned anything ? Vengeance rules , death to all offenders ! And people wonder why i want no part of this insane , corrupt society . Society ? Now there is a fecking joke !
Let he without sin ,  cast the first stone !

[Lesley Silvester]

I worked in a Cat A prison.  It is the loss of freedom that is the punishment.  The cells are tiny and often overcrowded.  Lots of prisoners lose their families as well (not that I blame wives who can't take it). Visiting may be every week but if your family live the other side of the country on benefits, they often can't afford to visit very often.  Believe me, I was always very glad to get out at the end of the day and, if I needed a deterant to avoid a life of crime, that would be it.

[Castle Farm]

The reason that they are in prison is they broke the laws that are suppose to protect the people that don't break them.

I feel no sympathy whatsoever for prisoners,you do the crime and do the time, thats if they are caught.

I'm not talking parking fines and non payment of TV fees I'm talking theft, bodily harm and the like.

Last year my mother in law who is 87 was robbed while she slept. The noise of these scumbags woke her up, but she was to scared to go down stairs. They stole her TV, some orniments and £400 she had saved towards her electric bill.

She was in such as state we had to move her into another property, as she was to scared to go to bed.

If I'd have caught the bastards I'd have beaten the living s**t out of them.

Perhaps they were poor and on benifit or needed to money to fund thier drug habit.

Please don't talk to me about going easy of people like these. I'd birch the skin off the lot of them.

[RUSTYME]

There you go cf , you make my point .
You say you are not talking parking fines or non payment of tv licence etc .  You are talking about theft , bodily harm etc . And then you say you would beat the living s**t out of the ones who stole from your mil .
Is beating the living s**t out of someone not classed as bodily harm ?
Would you not therefore be just as bad as the scumbags you would birch the skins off ?
Fact is , yot would be worse than them , because you would have put yourself above the law , judge , jury and executioner . You are above the law ? You are better than the law ?
Wrong wrong wrong !
That is exctly the reason we have laws . To stop vigilanties handing out their own form of punishment , ie beating the living s**t out of some scumbag , is it not ?

[Moleskins]

Problem is Rustyme you or I are deterred from killing the OH (even though they sometimes deserve it    ) because we don't fancy the idea of prison. These people who beat up pensioners for their drug money aren't afraid of prison, so you have to come up with something they are afraid of. What would you suggest?

[robert waddell]

this is a good going spat this one        i am with rusty  and against CF  one thing catching them red handed and  giving out justice  look at singe ma jeep that tried to bomb Glasgow airport   the ones that tackled him were hailed as hero's  they were not done for beating him up
 
 
it is the human rights charter that you have to look at and thank for the rights of prisoners   any medical problem they have to see a doctor or dentist within 24 hours or the prisons are in breach  same with there TV or i pods 

[RUSTYME]

Perhapse the pensioners should hide their drug money a bit better then  moley ? lol .
 This is what we have an elected parliament for , is it not ?
 They make the laws  the police catch the law breakers and the judiciary  impose the prescribed law  and punishment .
If you want laws changed or new ones made , vote accordingly , or lobby your mp ! That is the system , right or wrong ?
Should we be ruled by fear instead ? Fear of pain or injury ?
Should we kill people who are mentally insane because they  commit a crime ?
To protect your property or your life or limb . using 'reasonable force' is one thing , and lawful at that .
To seek out a person after the act and to inflict what you decide a suitable punishment ,  is a completely different kettle of fish altogether .
 Why am i standing up for a system i detest ?  One thing i have to admit is , it is better than the kkk handing out their judgements , or some random nutter deciding he knows better than the law of the land , and beats the living s**t out of someone after the event .
Again i say , humanitarian
society ? my arse !
 

[Castle Farm]

No point argueing about this,I have my views and you have yours. Avoiding a problem never solved the problem.

The police didn't catch the burglers who did MIL and 4 other houses that night, but she did get an incident number.

It took her about 6 months to get over that night and for weeks she had the shakes.


''Perhapse the pensioners should hide their drug money a bit better then  moley ? lol . ''
 

Your attitude sucks Rusty.

[Beewyched]

Problem is Rustyme you or I are deterred from killing the OH (even though they sometimes deserve it    ) because we don't fancy the idea of prison ...

That is NOT in the slightest bit funny 

[Lesley Silvester]

I'm not saying that people who break the law shouldn't be punished but prison IS a punishment.  I think people who steal to feed drug habits aren't so much not afraid of prison as desperate for their next fix.  This does not mean I am saying they should be treated leniently.  Theft is theft and, when it scares people like CF's MIL, it is worse.  I have had my house broken into and I was terrified for ages afterwards.  And I was only about 21 at the time.  For elderly, vulnerable people it must be far worse. This should be taken into consideration when they are sentenced.

[RUSTYME]

My comment was not in anyway directed at your mil cf or at any pensioner . It was merely having a laugh at the way the sentence read , not at the actual meaning of the sentence .
As for  atitude , the feeling is mutual , but like you i shan't be losing any sleep over it !

[Rosemary]

this is a good going spat this one       

Certainly is. I've not been following it but looked in tonight.

If anyone hurt my family, I would wish all the torture of Hell on them - but that's vengeance. When I read about the horrible things folk do to others, I think "bring back hanging / birching" etc but in the cold light of day, I don't think it's right. It would make society as bad as the perpetrators of crime.

And on prisoners rights, they are still human beings. Some repent and change. And the earlier point by smallholderinthecity about taking away the rights of one group may be a slippery slope - offenders today. Who tomorrow? the disabled, Jews, homosexuals?

[RUSTYME]

Bugger , that is exactly what i think Rosemary , why couldn't i have said that ? lol .