[wellies]

Hi everyone    so the new puppy is now 6 months old, a really checky happy chappy and until 2 weeks ago his training was coming on a treat (well as quickly as can be expected from a bouncy Irish setter!). We have attended basic puppy school where he did well and listened (mostly) to basic commands. His recall has been good up until 2 weekends ago where he basically looked at me, stuck to fingers up and ran in the opposite direction after 2 swallows  . from this point he has now learnt that comming back is actually fun and my exasperation is growing. He has definately found his nose and those smells are more exciting than me. I have tried food treats, his favourite squeaky toy, fussing the other dog, running waving my arms in the opposite direction, sitting in the field waiting and waiting and waiting  I have enclosed him in a small part of the field and practice his recall 3x a day for the past 10 days, went well until swallows went past again and he lost all concerntration.
Any ideas greatly received. I have contacted a trainer today to see if they can help as I would like to stop this behaviour now rather than it get worse. We live in a really rural area and it's a shame if we can't get on top of this and have to keep him on a lead for all his walks. Whenever I speak to people who have other working breeds (my husband included, who has a working spaniel) they all look at me like this is an unheard of issue and with utter horror. I feel most embarrassed as it would seem I have the only gun breed puppy who is ignoring my commands 

[Rosemary]

Can't help except with sympathy - we have a collie with convenient deafness 

[robert waddell]

annie would know the solution but she has left the forum

[in the hills]

Lots of little things that you can do ....... most you will probably know already if you have attended classes and OH has spaniels .... so forgive me if I repeat what you already know but I will have a bash seeing that there are no other replies.


Sit pup and give stay command. Step back, only a few steps. Call pup to you, tapping your knees. Repeat 2-3 times but several times each day. Sometimes walk back to pup without recall and praise for staying.
You can do this in narrow corridor or similar to start with ie. nowhere else to go!


When out and about reduce time pup has for free play for a while. Recall when you think pup IS likely to come back and praise ie. when no distractions. Try to avoid situations when ignoring recall is likely.


Concentrate on general obedience and do not focus solely on recall. By gaining better control , recall will improve too. So short but frequent sessions of heel work .... on lead initially and then off. Make it fun so pup's eyes are on you. Walk slow, fast, turn directions, even backwards.


Feed time - pup to sit and wait for recall to his dog bowl.


When doing recall - run backwards. Your pup is still a baby and may want to chase after you.


Never scold pup once it has returned to you ..... it maybe tempting    ......you will be scolding for pup coming to you.




My father trains gundogs and believe me your pup is not the only gundog to ignore the recall command! At 6 months, pup is very much a baby and has plenty of time to learn. Try to avoid situations at this age and concentrate on basics where there are few distractions. Lots of people ruin/cause future problems by expecting too much from very young dogs. Some breeds are slower to mature than others as well. For example, Flat Coated retrievers. My father would do only basic obedience with these until 12 months of age and no dummy work.


Have fun with your little one. He will get there in time.

[HelenVF]

Whenever mine hit the "teenage phase", I go RIGHT back to basics and they soon come out.  Just don't let him go off self hunting or you are going to have a hell of a job getting this sorted.  Certainly don't allow off lead walks until you have got it sorted.

Helen

[wellies]

Thank you so much for your replies. He is my 2nd setter so I expected some slow development with his training but this was such a turn around from him normally coming straight back I think I was a little alarmed! We are still doing frequent but short sessions of all the other basics and this afternoon he showed some better concentration with his recall. Those pesky birds are still a distraction though but he was good at the sit as they flew past and focused on me so I was really chuffed  . We haven't had to do puppy training for 7 years so I think I forgot how patient and persistent one needs to be... obviously I needed a bit of a reminder

[jaykay]

Great post from ITH 

I reminded one of mine about recall on the end of a very long washing line, deliberately in a rabbit-filled field, so I could give a little tug and remind him he was to come back! But the running backwards, arms open, high, happy voice - also works in less distraction filled places 

Damn those people who make you feel yours is the only puppy who won't recall, what insecure prigs they must be  They're wrong and if they had an ounce of humanity or honesty would have talked to you about training properly if they've got it so sorted - one suspects they haven't 

Lose the embarrassment. It makes us tense, overdo the training and forget to enjoy our dogs  You and he will sort it out I'm sure 

[feldar]

Can't help except with sympathy - we have a collie with convenient deafness 

Yep me too, soooo frustrating you have my sympathy. I have people on footpath in hysterics with my " working collie" who does her own thing.
So with a  setter i would have no chance!!
Good luck

[Beewyched]

Oh dear Wellies - I can totally sympathise
My weimaraner has been an angel since getting him as a puppy last year, so well-behaved & attentive, responding to the whistle & hand signals    he's been with me 24/7 as I haven't been able to work for sometime now - I was so smug ...
BIG mistake - he's been the most disobedient, naughty little muppet for the last month    He's suddenly started chewing slippers & chasing the chickens & nothing, absoloutely nothing is working for us at the moment 
As ITH says, it's back to basics for us too    I know he WILL grow out of this teen phase 

[Old Shep]

welcome to my world wellies!! Bloomin' setters! and I'm convinced that swallows deliberately taunt them! Just keep going with all the obedience work and avoid any situations where he/she can do a really big bog -off! Small fields and long lines. Good luck 

[YorkshireLass]

Only to add - be careful how/when you use your recall command. If you call, and he's running away, eventually he'll associate the "get back 'ere!" command with sodding off i.e. "get back 'ere" now tells him to run away!




I play hide and seek if my girl's not paying attention. She's....rather attached to me shall we say. So if she goes out of sight I might just loiter behind a tree - she does stop to see where I am regularly, and comes to find me Perhaps only one to try when your pup will stop and see where you are! 

[SallyintNorth]

Loads of good advice 

I always say, if I had to have only one rule, it would be this:

"A dog that comes is a good dog."

Never, ever, EVER, not once, not EVER, tell your dog off when it comes to you.  Not if you've been trying to catch it for an hour.  Not if it's got your favourite jumper in its mouth and has been playing dead rabbit with it in a mudbath for twenty minutes.  Not even if you asked it to stay somewhere else.  Not if it's wearing the 14th cat flap it's torn out of the back door trying to get into the garden to help you dig up those new bedding plants.  It has to totally believe that next to you is always, ALWAYS a good and safe, nice place to be.

In time, the recall will be faster than thought. 

And yes, don't keep calling it back if it's running away and clearly not going to return.  Rather, with a baby, tell it it's coming when it is, so it makes the right association of the word and deed.

Yup, I've used the washing line trick, too, jaykay    Just don't be too focussed on making it come when you want it to - keep building on positive associations, on successful recalls when it's easy, and the behaviour will become instantaneous, faster than thought.  Then you can start practising recall in difficult scenarios - but pup will be a little older than 6 months by then ... and the swallows will have flown home... 

And one day, if there's any such thing as Karma (which there is), you'll be out somewhere with your now grown-up dog, and your so-called friends with theirs, and there'll be some really exciting distraction - a deer, for instance.  And yours will be the only dog coming back towards its owner... 

[sokel]

Try going back to basics
Put him on a long leash and recall him when he comes give him a tasty treat (I use chopped up coctail sausages)once he comes every time you say his name put him onto a long line
Repeat as before
Again once he starts recalling every time gradualy start just giving the treat every 2nd or 3rd time. He should still come in the hope is going to get a treat
Again continue untill you are confident he comes as soon as you call him
Then let him off and go back to rewarding him every recall once again gradualy reduce the number of times you reward
Any slipups go back to the stage before
This worked on a friends gordon setter that had not got past basic puppy training class at 18 Months old because the second his leash was unclipped he would take off around the hall like a nutter

[YorkshireLass]

Again once he starts recalling every time gradualy start just giving the treat every 2nd or 3rd time. He should still come in the hope is going to get a treat
Again continue untill you are confident he comes as soon as you call him
Then let him off and go back to rewarding him every recall once again gradualy reduce the number of times you reward

I forgot about this!


Intermittent / random rewards - very good - works on all mammals (and probably other critters) - just like how humans get addicted to gambling - "maybe THIS time I'll get the jackpot/sausages!"

[SallyintNorth]

Intermittent / random rewards - very good - works on all mammals (and probably other critters) - just like how humans get addicted to gambling - "maybe THIS time I'll get the jackpot/sausages!"

The only thing that has always bothered me about this technique is - what if the thing he's doing that you are trying to call him away from is more exciting than the treat he might get?