[MAK]

I want to know who as all the money. The gap between the haves and have nots seem to be growing.
I skyped my son last night who has just landed a new job. He was headhunted, gets a 25% payrise, monthly and annual bonus, private healthcare and a good pension deal. His pay will increase after 3 months - So what line is he in? High end jewellery - and I mean very high end!! In his last job he made jewellery for Boodles and Tiffanys with some items sold then thrown in the safe ( investment and probable tax evasion) - now he will be working for a diamond company who need good goldsmiths to work with their rocks.
Whilst I am proud of my son getting a great new job it does make me wonder who the heck has the money to buy such extreme trinkets when others have lost their jobs or are struggling on a day to day basis. Spannish bankers ? 

[doganjo]

They are the people that our Chancellor refuses to put on a higher tax level in case they jump the country.

[Victorian Farmer]

we live nere Aviemore and half have got it and the other half havent att the school range rover after rangrover you can pic the kids out .it is london prices diesel 150 liter chips £2.50 etc there used to be middle class thats gone they are poore .iff kids see there mothers and dads working with nothink they have faild no holaday no school trips even thou they both work on minimum wage and just live its a joke .i think things are worse naw then the 50s .i have never voted as they do whot they like people dident wont the war blare said so thats it .people dont care about each other no trust its bad naw.

[MAK]

Grayson Perry's TV show on Taste and the "middle class" revealed the Range Rover Brigrade - so much money to buy class driven labels for the road and house. Sad and shallow really but I do ask myself if I had such wealth would I just be one of them or give 10% away and help those who need help.The good thing is that I will never be challenged to find out as I have no paid employment.

[Fowgill Farm]

The 'haves' in the majority of cases have worked bloody hard for their money and the 'middle class' just gets more and more squeezed, the 'have nots' mainly want to stay that way because they're better off on benefits (my sister was offered a full time job recently but she worked out she was better off staying on benefits  ) and until they stop this countries benefit culture and make it worthwhile working it will continue along these lines with jealousy breeding contempt. We have the Range rover horsey brigade round here and for the most part all are self made business people very few have inherited wealth. The middle classes are caught by the fact that they earn too much to get benefits but can only just a say keep up with the cost of living when you bring into account all the govt stealth taxes on VAT, fuel and the like. We are continually told by people that we are lucky to have a big house, land etc but we tell them we're not we started in a one up one down and have just worked bloody hard to get where we are, wish people would stop moaning about the disparity between the haves and have nots and get their arse into gear and do something about it!
mandy 

[bazzais]

There are still huge industries that rely on the fact that there is a recession - money lending, credit agencies and those that are not effected by recession - like legal obligations such as insurance, banking etc etc

So there are people still making money out there.

As for benifits - if someone wants to stay on benifits because its more financially comforatable to do so - then I'd possible say they wouldn't actually get the job anyway even if they didi apply.  And lets face it if they did get the job who the hell wants someone with that attitude to work for them or serve them as a member of the public.  If they cant be arsed to get a job - the job they will do will probably be a bad one and not worth the money anyhow.

Let them sit on their arse and think they are living it rich and somehow using the system - when in reality they are actually not, they are poor and on benifits.

[Hermit]

OOH I could rant and rant on this one but basically there is no such thing in my book as have and have nots.... cant and wonts  against doers and dones to me. I totally agree with you Fowgill farm a lot of benefits should be abolished and a lot of healthcare made private to make folk have to get off their bums and do something or look after themselves better. Yes they have prvate health in the US and probably the most unhealthy population in the world but they are responsible for themselves and no hard worker has to pay for their ways.. Good luck on your son with what sounds like a very interesting job but remember who is keeping him there . Everyone can do something even if its buying a ladder and a sponge and going window cleaning and good luck to anyone who does it. But we are what we make of ourselves, everyone has the same educational prospects available to them in this country , no excuses to me please. As for the rich families they are down to someone in history being a hard worker and bloody earning it. You are right Fowgill Farm when you say jealousy has a lot to do with divides . My Dad stated off as an apprentice dyer and became a top manager of the biggest carpet company in the world, my old farrier could not read or write but took his exams verbally and became one of the top farriers in Yorkshire doing a lot of display work at shows as well. Everyone is born with the same opportunities it is how individuals choose to use them is what makes a person and money.  I could go on but you get my drift.
Unless you win the lottery of course!!!

[robert waddell]

so that will be the carpet baggers that are the haves and buying jewelry    never seen the point to it (jewelry that is )   it is something to lose get stolen or get caught in moving parts  and just what is the point of having a Rolex when the sun can tell you the time

[Womble]

To take a slightly different tack MAK, the reason people are buying gold and jewellery etc is that it's not easy to print more of it and reduce its value.  Land is similar, but of course its price depends significantly on the availability and price of credit.

As for Range Rovers, I suspect if we knew just how much of the range rover folks actually own and how much still belongs to the finance company, that might tell a different story too!

I have friends who on the surface look very 'moneyed', but once you know the facts, it's obvious that very little of it is actually theirs anyway - everything has been financed through loans, or by remortgaging as house prices rose over the last decade. I'm not making any moral judgement on that, but since I'm sure my friends are far from unique, that would go a long way to explaining the sort of things you and Victorian Farmer are talking about  .

[plumseverywhere]

When I was 17 and just about to take my A-levels in a few months time, I found myself under quite a lot of pressure from my parents to work in the family business. My Dad had worked hard - literally an East London barrow boy who'd put himself through college and built up a very successful business over many years. As an only child it was a lot of pressure that I faced 
Dad still quotes me to this day "When I tried to get my daughter to take on the business she said 'Dad, one capitalist b*st*rd in the family is quite enough....". I went on to be an NHS nurse.
Looking back - did I make the right decision? It must have felt awful for him - all that hard work which was then sold onto strangers.
Yes - I made the right decision. I didn't want to run an engineering company - I wanted to look after people. 
[size=78%]Don't get me started on benefit 'scrounger's though - where we live there are far, far too many (and they have more holidays than us, in nicer places, their tele's are bigger and their kids have i-phones...but are they truly happy?...) [/size]

[robert waddell]

well having worked on housing developments    you saw the new owners coming into there house all new furniture then the new cars and all on 120% mortgage 
oh and the range rovers  discos or freelanders they were doing them at 50%deposit and nothing to pay for 3 years that was when the warranty was up  hand them back and start again 

[deepinthewoods]

here we go again, another walk down bigot street.
has anyone actually looked at the job market? or the housing market for that matter.
minimum wage £6 odd an hour, average rent 120/week you do the maths. the poor still have to pay all the taxes the rich do, in fact probably more because the rich disguise earnings.
tax credits are paid to people earning a wage, even up to 43k/year, why because a working wage isnt enough to cover basic needs, why, because the property market is so vastly over inflated. thats how the rich got rich, yes hard work is essential but most of it has come from the property rip off.
on the radio today, 275000 new families are formed in the uk yearly, only 15000 houses built to house them.
it is very easy to sit and look out over your land and preach. try taking a drive into an innercity housing estate, if you dare. catch up with the reality of the uk today. no jobs, no industry, no housing and no hope.
i hate benefit scroungers as much as anyone, i work as close to fulltime as i can being a fulltime single dad, but i couldnt get anywhere near coping without some help from the government, and i get paid nearly 3 times the minimum wage. god knows how a youngster in a city is supposed to cope.
 
and dont forget that the biggest loss of revenue to hm comes from buisness tax evasion, not from people on the dole, they cost pennies in comparison.

[Ina]

Thank you, deepinthewoods, for your voice of reason. There's so much hate coming off the screen, I was just about to close down in disgust.

I'm another one of the "have-nots". Not that I'm complaining about it, but it's a fact. And I have worked hard all my life. But it's just not true that "everybody can buy a ladder and go out window cleaning" - or whatever else is suggested. A lot of people have health problems, that don't make them conventionally disabled, but still restrict the types of job they can do. I am currently without a full time job. Not my own fault, as they say; but that's how it is. (I have worked for the same company for about 10 years, but they are "re-structuring".) And now I am so old (54) that nobody else wants me any more. Oh, I keep busy; but I earn very little.

Also - personally I don't know any "benefits scroungers". However, I do know several people who, like me, would rather jump off the nearest bridge than go to the job centre and beg for the pittance they allow you - if you fulfil all sorts of conditions. Because there I was treated like scum - not by all the staff, but by enough. And I am in a bad enough condition anyway, not having a job and having to ask for money, I don't need bullying on top of that - quite frankly, I don't need help to feel suicidal.

Rant over.

[jaykay]

Yes, thanks Deep and Ina.

Even if we were able to grab a ladder and bucket, I think we'd struggle to make enough not to be on benefits of some description.

I've worked for 22 years at well paid jobs. Two failed marriages and the housing market slump means I own no equity in a house despite having paid a mortgage for those 22 years. And no, I haven't been living the high life.

My pension is put off to the point (68) where I know I will not be able to continue my currently very demanding job (high pressure 70hour week) til then. Who's going to re-employ me once I turn 50? If I have to change fields, I'll start at the bottom again.

I face the very real prospect of having nowhere to live at 68, having worked my socks off for 40 years. Don't tell me that everyone who's struggling is lazy. Some may well be, but for a lot, life circumstances have conspired against us. If you're not in that position, count your blessings.

[plumseverywhere]

Not at all! There are people who need and deserve the benefits they are awarded. My distaste is for people who are clear faces in my head and who I know for a fact wouldn't want to work as they've said so. I'm not thinking of faceless crowds when I say what I do. My mum was on disability benefits prior to reaching benefits age - they helped to pay for some modifications to allow her independence for longer. Others who've fallen on hard times through no faults of their own deserve support and I fully understand that and agree with it.
I think once you've heard with your own ears someone ridiculing you for 'paying for their holiday' as we have with a certain man who lives near here, it makes my blood boil but like I say I'm actually thinking this with people in my mind who I know are laughing while others work (because they've said so!)