[Queich Cottage Goats]

Hi all. This has been a really helpful site for me and this is my first post. I really hope someone can help.....
We moved to a great rural location in september last year so this is our first spring/summer season. We have half an acre of flat grazing with scrub to the sides and a small river at the end of the field. We aquired 2 wethers as our first goats in October last year. One is 1 year old and a cross angora/pygmy. I 'plucked' his angora coat a month ago as he was blowing it out. He is looking fantastic. The other is a rather large pygmy who has a very rough short coat. His history is unknown to me and I would guess he is around 4 years old. They have been great and an absolute joy to have around the place. Until now.....
In March/April they started itching during the bout of hot weather. They are treated routinely with louse powder anyway. I could see nothing crawling on their skin or coats so i called the vet. He came out and diagnosed probable sucking lice and prescribed 'spot-on' treatment for sheep. Also administered an antihistamene injection. Everything calmed down and the weather changed to cold again.
We are now into June and just had another very hot spell of weather. I see the flies buzzing around and always apply a repelant (for horses) to them twice a day. The goats are back to fidgeting and stamping their feet as if something is on them. Biting their ankles, using their horns to scratch themselves, etc.
So, another call to the vet. he came out yesterday, had a really goad look over them and administered another injection of antihistamenes and diagnosed possible allergy to the midges. ie Sweet-itch. He has prescribed SWITCH pour on for horses, 5ml per goat and again they look a wee bit more settled today.
I am really concerned for my older goat - he is at the point of constantly rubbing against the fencing and has taken off most of his primary hairs bilaterally around his neck, belly and flanks. He does have beautifil dark silky hair growing underneath though so not bald. He is losing weight and condition rapidly. he is still really alert and is eating very well. I asked for bloods and skin scrape but vet wants to wait and see and review in 2 weeks as he does not think it is a deficiency. Has anyone else seen this problem in their goats and what was the outcome? If it is the midges what can I do to lessen the problem when we live only 300 yards from water and have no where to hide?  Any advice would be appreciated

[jaykay]

I think your vet might be right about the midges. If you have a goat who's actually allergic to them, then midge repellent and antihistamines are the way to go but he's still going to have a miserable summer 
The horsey folk use rugs on their sweet-itch horses, might be worth finding someone who has a horse with sweet itch and seeing what works?

I have sympathy -  it's me who's allergic to them and I live in a midgie hellhole. I have three Mosquito Magnets but even so have to cover in repellent every time I go outside. At least I don't have to live outside 

[Queich Cottage Goats]

Thanks JayKay. Good advice. Your allergy sounds awful too. Midges annoy me but I am not allergic. And if it is the midges my poor goat is allergic to I might have to rethink him staying here. I dont want him to be unhappy.... will try speaking to some horse folk first though to see if I can self remedy as I really dont want to part with him

[Skirza]

we used to use benzyl benzoate for sweet itch (got it from the chemist but be prepared for some funny looks when you ask for a HUGE bottle...it would seem it is used for scabies in humans!). For midges up here in Scotland I find that Avon Skin so Soft is amazing for us..not sure how it would work on goats but I would certainly give it a go - that is unless anyone knows of any ingredient that would be unsuitable on goats?

[salopman]

Now how funny is this - because when we have been to Cyprus I checked and people over there swear by this Skin so soft spray against Mozzies! Its made by AVON and I bought about 12 bottles for my wife who suffers with them- which are still in my upstairs cupboard - it says its a replenishing dry oil body spray - so assume if its harmless to humans surely it would be ok on goats hair?? We are only on bottle 2 so anyone who wants a bottle let me know say £1 bottle and plus postage. Let me know ...

[tizaala]

Did your vet check for sarcoptic mange (fox mange ) ?

[jaykay]

Skin so Soft is good, but I find it lasts for about half-an-hour and I'm sure part of the deterrent is the oiliness which is ok on human skin but maybe wouldn't have the same effect on goat hair. MosiGuard, which is natural but based on citronella, lasts for about 6 hours on humans.

I bought online some very good natural-oil spray for the goats last year. It's in the byre and the heavens have just opened - when it calms down a bit I'll go and find out what it's called.

[Anke]

If both of them have got it, it is most likely to be something that travels bewteen animals - so I think skin scrapes would be useful, but they may not find any mange mites.
 
I have a GG goatling that has suddenly, over a period of 4 weeks come out on spots all over, she is scratching herself raw in places... Vet has treated for mange (as in Dectomax twice) but no improvement (skin scrapings were clear). So mange is ruled out (also the other two goats sharing her pen are absolutely clear!) Vet is now thinking along the lines of either a) an auto-immune problem or b) a stress reaction that suddenly caused her immune system to not be able to cope with normally present bacteria (most likely staph aureus) and come out in rash all over. I have treated with an initial dose of steroid and now giving twice weekly Betamox injections. Some improvements, but nothing amazing....
 
On the basis that all my other goats are blooming healthy we have also ruled out something like Zn deficiency.
 
What is the anti-fly spray that you are using? they could just be allergic to that? Normally goats are not so troubled by flies as are sheep - they are cleaner animals, as long as they do not have the runs.
 
I would also think that maybe you could take your goats to the vet rather than have him/her coming out to you, it is a lot cheaper that way? If these are pygmy/pygmy crosses - don't they hop into the boot of your car?
 
 

[goosepimple]

The Avon product used to contain citronella but has something else now as a substitute - there are citronella based products for animals I have seen - not sure if it was for domestic or for livestock and not sure where I've seen it I'm afraid, it was an advert - you must be able to google for this sort of thing.  Always worth a try.  Perhaps try a bit of Mycil athletes foot powder on it - just in a small area in case it aggrivates - I get prickly heat as i am fair skinned / freckley type which is very itchy and Mycil helps stop the itchyness.

[Penninehillbilly]

I came across a 'horsey' forum last year where they were discussing home made fly repellants, citronella oil was in many of them, may be worth googling, there sounded to be sensible ideas, some involved cold tea, which would stain white hair (one of the things discussed I think).
The flies were bothering mine, so I was sponging a mix over their heads and back ends.

[tizaala]

Citronella is now a banned product as it causes light sensitivity and makes horses more susceptible to mud fever etc , use caution with anything containing this chemical.

[goosepimple]

Yes, I don't think you can get it in anything now, its the replacement product, but sorry don't know its name.

[clydesdaleclopper]

My horsey experience for the mites my Clydie gets in his feathers is that the best treatment is flowers of sulphur (usually mixed with pig oil). It is probably also worth making sure that they aren't deficient in any minerals or vitamins and I believe a copper deficiency can leave them more prone to external parasites.

[Queich Cottage Goats]

Wow - you guys are good! and thanks for all the helpful responses.

clydesdaleclopper - Funny you should mention Flowers of sulphur. I have a book from 1928 called 'the book of the goat'. An interesting read! It talks about using flowers or sulphur for goat skin ailments mixed with oil. Leave on for 3 days then wash off. I have gone as far as to buy FOS but been a bit wary of using it so far.
Can I ask? What type of mites bother your horses in their feathers? I feel there is something tickling their legs and feet by the way they stamp and fidget from foot to foot.
Deficiencies were my main worry but vet happy that the other goat is in excellent health and that their concentrates contain everything they need. I also have a 'rockies baby' salt lick for goats that contains copper. I am still concerned though but vet said 'no bloods required yet'.

Anke, goosepimple and tizaala - Is citronella really a banned product for livestock? I recently bought roll-ons containing citronella called 'fly away defleqt' for horses. approved by HSA. The goats were being bothered by flies and midges so I bought it a few months ago. I am worried now that this may be the cause of the allergy. I did show it to the vet but he didn't comment. He wasn't fussed for a skin scrape as no raised patches or redness to see. He ruled our mange as no lesions/lumps on skin. Again, I was worried re mange mite but my other goat is showing no symptoms of hair loss.

Skirza - the benzyl benzoate you mention. how do you apply it and how often? Is it a skin healer/soother or a repellent?

Not sure re the Avon skin so soft. I don't want to aggravate whatever the problem is in case it is an allergic reaction to chemicals/products. But will keep it in mind.
Please keep your thinking caps on for me
Cheers

[clydesdaleclopper]

clydesdaleclopper - Funny you should mention Flowers of sulphur. I have a book from 1928 called 'the book of the goat'. An interesting read! It talks about using flowers or sulphur for goat skin ailments mixed with oil. Leave on for 3 days then wash off. I have gone as far as to buy FOS but been a bit wary of using it so far.
Can I ask? What type of mites bother your horses in their feathers? I feel there is something tickling their legs and feet by the way they stamp and fidget from foot to foot.
Deficiencies were my main worry but vet happy that the other goat is in excellent health and that their concentrates contain everything they need. I also have a 'rockies baby' salt lick for goats that contains copper. I am still concerned though but vet said 'no bloods required yet'.

It is the chorioptic mange mite and it makes him stamp his feet lots when they are getting bad. You can buy big tins of pig oil from your local feed store so just mix the flowers of sulphur with the oil and pour on. I often wash the legs with neem shampoo first as neem is a fantastic insecticidal.


Try getting the Rockies red lick as I think that is the higher copper one.


You might find Pat Coleby's book "Natural Goat Care" an interesting read on the issue of minerals.


Hope this is some help