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Author Topic: Alternative to Orijen Dog Food  (Read 24275 times)

YorkshireLass

  • Joined Mar 2010
  • Just when I thought I'd settled down...!
Re: Alternative to Orijen Dog Food
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2012, 06:11:34 pm »
I muddle between feeding raw (heart, liver, chicken, pet mince) and "Fishmongers" salmon and potato  http://www.petsathome.com/shop/fishmongers-adult-dog-food-with-salmon-and-potato-10kg-by-pets-at-home-58386

Freddiesfarm

  • Joined Jan 2010
Re: Alternative to Orijen Dog Food
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2012, 09:42:35 pm »
CSJK9 fantastic foods but then I would say that as I stock it!

We started feeding it after we had a dog diagnosed with epilepsy and she needed low protein additive free food and since then we have never looked back.  Made in the UK by a farmers daughter and stocked throughout the UK.  Very reasonably priced and great variations to choose from.

www.csjk9.com



robate55

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • Suffolk
Re: Alternative to Orijen Dog Food
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2012, 10:06:06 pm »
Unfortunaely I would not agree about csj & epilepsy. I fed my epileptic dog on it for a few months & her fits increased. They decreased when I put her back to her original food
Rose

smudger

  • Joined Jan 2012
  • North Devon/ West Exmoor
Re: Alternative to Orijen Dog Food
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2012, 09:32:00 am »
I'm trying Arcana, made by Orijen using same quality of ingredients, just more vegetables, about £20 cheaper a bag (still £50 mind). 60% protein instead of 80%. Dogs liking it, no change in poop. Even the cat has a nibble.
Traditional and Rare breed livestock -  Golden Guernsey Goats, Blackmoor Flock Shetland and Lleyn Sheep, Pilgrim Geese and Norfolk Black Turkeys. Capallisky Irish Sport Horse Stud.

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
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    • ABERDON GUNDOGS for work and show
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Re: Alternative to Orijen Dog Food
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2012, 09:53:48 am »
I'm trying Arcana, made by Orijen using same quality of ingredients, just more vegetables, about £20 cheaper a bag (still £50 mind). 60% protein instead of 80%. Dogs liking it, no change in poop. Even the cat has a nibble.
60% protein? Are you sure?  I'd have to scrape my Brittanys off the roof at that level.  Can't give them any more than about 20%, even during the season.  Some friends of mine feed raw but they are even at a similar level by feeding vegetables to balance the meat and bone content.
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

smudger

  • Joined Jan 2012
  • North Devon/ West Exmoor
Re: Alternative to Orijen Dog Food
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2012, 03:11:41 pm »
http://www.championpetfoods.com/acana/show-product.php?formulation=phfd


Yes 60%. Orijen is now 80% (previously 70/75%).


No fillers see?  Don't think it would be protein that would make dogs hyper rather than starchy carbohydrate fillers (same with horses, not high protein but high starch the problem - not that I'm feeding my mare anything more than 10/11% mind).


Wolves would be eating primarily meat diet. And this is less smelly than a raw food diet.
Traditional and Rare breed livestock -  Golden Guernsey Goats, Blackmoor Flock Shetland and Lleyn Sheep, Pilgrim Geese and Norfolk Black Turkeys. Capallisky Irish Sport Horse Stud.

Plymstock

  • Joined Jul 2013
Re: Alternative to Orijen Dog Food
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2013, 10:23:37 am »
Hi

A really good option instead of Orijen is Fromm which you can buy from Doggie Solutions. They also do a cheaper working dog food which is VAT free. I buy both Orijen and Fromm

Plymstock (S Devon)

funkyfish

  • Joined Nov 2011
  • Devon
Re: Alternative to Orijen Dog Food
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2013, 10:41:38 am »
Humm that is way to high protein. Most pet dogs need around 18%. its prob that high as its poor quality.


Please don't confuse dogs with wolves, they are a different species and have a VERY different digestive system and dietary needs. Wolves like cats are a true carnivore and dogs are an omnivore with a fairly large caecum for digesting plant starches. Dog get more energy from fat and protein than carbs/sugars.


a pet dog needs approx 16-20% fat and usually under 25% protein- depending on if its plant or animal and the quality/bioavailibility.
Old and rare breed Ducks, chickens, geese, sheep, guinea pigs, 3 dogs, 3 cats, husband and chicks brooding in the tv cabinate!

Beewyched

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • South Wales
    • tunkeyherd.co.uk
Re: Alternative to Orijen Dog Food
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2013, 10:55:54 am »
We've tried various foods over the years with ours - Setters, Dalmation (now over the Rainbow Bridge) & Weimaraner.
Found Royal Canine "Puppy large breed" great for them when they were young pups, but too much for them after 18 months ( 10 months for the Spotty & Weimy)  :excited: :excited:
We now give them all Dr Johns Silver with a dollop of minced raw chicken & they look great (& behave fairly well  ;)  ).
Tunkey Herd - registered Kune Kune & rare breed poultry - www.tunkeyherdkunekune.com

Clickalong

  • Joined Jul 2013
Re: Alternative to Orijen Dog Food
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2013, 01:33:47 pm »
Dr Johns and the like are not grain free unfortunately as far as I'm aware.

A few British grain free foods are as follows:

Applaws
Canagan
Green Dog Food- Salmon, Trout & Vegetables
Lilly's Kitchen (Grain free varieties)
Nutrix Duck and Potato
Simpsons Premium (Grain free varieties)

I personally feed my dogs a balanced raw diet (DIY style); sources from local butchers and game shooters. Mine are thriving
« Last Edit: July 15, 2013, 01:35:29 pm by Clickalong »

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
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Re: Alternative to Orijen Dog Food
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2013, 01:36:15 pm »
Humm that is way to high protein. Most pet dogs need around 18%. its prob that high as its poor quality.


Please don't confuse dogs with wolves, they are a different species and have a VERY different digestive system and dietary needs. Wolves like cats are a true carnivore and dogs are an omnivore with a fairly large caecum for digesting plant starches. Dog get more energy from fat and protein than carbs/sugars.


a pet dog needs approx 16-20% fat and usually under 25% protein- depending on if its plant or animal and the quality/bioavailibility.
At last someone with good sense, I've been trying to get that across for years.  Pet dog owners juts won't listen, they think of they pay £50 a bag for food it must be better than something half that price.  Just isn't true.
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

Clickalong

  • Joined Jul 2013
Re: Alternative to Orijen Dog Food
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2013, 01:55:56 pm »
Humm that is way to high protein. Most pet dogs need around 18%. its prob that high as its poor quality.


Please don't confuse dogs with wolves, they are a different species and have a VERY different digestive system and dietary needs. Wolves like cats are a true carnivore and dogs are an omnivore with a fairly large caecum for digesting plant starches. Dog get more energy from fat and protein than carbs/sugars.


a pet dog needs approx 16-20% fat and usually under 25% protein- depending on if its plant or animal and the quality/bioavailibility.



A quick word about protein vs meat content.

Orijen does not contain 80% protein. Nor does Acana contain 60% protein.

They contain 80% and 60% meat respectively.

Meat does not equate to protein levels.
Orijen in fact contains 38% crude protein.
Acana (Wild Prairie) contains 31% crude protein.

What is your source for your statement that most pet dogs need around 18% protein?
You are in part correct in your statement re dogs being able to digest cereals.

The digestive system of the domestic dog and it's wild cousins (wild canine species and wolves of course) are almost identical. A recent study found that both dogs and wolves have the genes (the amylase enzyme) that encode enzymes needed to break down starch. The difference is that the sample of domestic dogs in the study showed a huge range in the amount of these genes in any one dog, compared to the wolf sample.

"When we look at the wolf genome, we only see one copy of the gene [for the amylase enzyme] on each chromosome. When we look at the dog genome, we see a range from 2 to 15 copies..."

The large range amongst the domestic dog sample explains alot. I hypothesize that it suggests why many dogs do perfectly well on diets containing cereals and grains, whereas those with a relative lack of copies of this specific gene may struggle. This lack of copies of the amylase enzyme means that their body struggles to break down starch (thus grains).

Another point to consider is that even dogs with a reasonable number of copies of the gene, may still struggle on some commercial foods because the crops produced by early farmers (which these dogs adapted to be able to digest and survive on) would have been massively different to the same type of crops now produced in the world today. This is a result of international business, imports and exports, advances in farming technology (fertilizers, pesticides etc) and means that these crops (with the additives needed for their production and transportation/importation) may still pose problems for some dogs.

The problem with the study is that the sample size of dogs was considerably larger than that of the wolf sample. I also think that if they were able to study this on a large scale, they may get some more answers.

Speaking specifically about my breed, I was recently speaking to a breed expert who was saying that she feels that many working type border collies can tend to struggle on certain commercial diets because their ancestors would not have come across commercial diets, unlike other breeds/dogs of the same time living in an urban environment. She says that the country, above all places where sheep are farmed (when you can't do anything else with the land you bung sheep on it- they are hardy buggers ) were the last places for commercial diets to be introduced to, meaning that many lines of working sheepdogs were fed as had been for years on offcuts from the local butcher and human leftovers.
My family live in the Scottish Highlands and farmed sheep there and my grandmother was telling me about how her grandmother used to make the sheepdogs' food. A mixture of waste/offcuts from the butcher, left overs from their sunday dinner (and sometimes mixed in with some porridge oats and stock).  Another thought is that specific breeds of dog are better able to digest specific crops/cereals from their region/country of origin. My hill dog can manage better with oats but really struggles to digest any other cereal types and can become quite unwell.

I personally feed my dogs on a raw diet because one of mine has chronic health issues and simply cannot digest grains properly. If he does get grains, his health problems flare up. My other dog, is a good example of a dog I hypothesize would have a reasonable number of copies of the amylase enzyme as she can digest grains and has no problems doing so. But, she is fed on raw because she likes it and I know she'd choose it over kibble any day! I've never seen a dog enjoy their food more in fact and she thrives on it.

It's not a one size fits all approach.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2013, 02:00:03 pm by Clickalong »

Moobli

  • Joined Jun 2010
  • Scotland
Re: Alternative to Orijen Dog Food
« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2013, 02:14:20 pm »
I feed Simpsons Sensitive (grain free) and my dogs are doing really well on it.  I used to feed Arden Grange, which I was also pleased with, but wanted a grain free diet.


[size=78%]http://www.simpsonspremium.com/sensitive-dog-food[/size]


It is less expensive than Orijen and as we breed ISDS registered working collies, we have a breeder account which makes the food even more affordable.


I also supplement my dogs diet with eggs, mince and raw chicken (wings, necks, thighs etc).  They also get wild rabbit at least once a week.

Torrin37

  • Joined Jun 2012
Re: Alternative to Orijen Dog Food
« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2013, 09:08:23 pm »
I have to admit I find the wealth of information/ opinion on dog food very confusing :-[

I think in the end you have to try different foods and go with what suits you / your dog and your pocket. There is a great website which has a breakdown of a lot of different foods so that you can quickly compare several different brands, which I found invaluable

www.whichdogfood.co.uk

shygirl

  • Joined May 2013
Re: Alternative to Orijen Dog Food
« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2013, 12:28:32 am »
im suprised no one hasnt mentioned Burns. created by a vet, quite pricey but im sure its made in scotland/uk.
wev used it for gsds and terriers. never had a problem. was recommended by our "strict" dog trainer in england, infact she was adament we used it, maybe she has shares ...lol.
we used cjs for a while as our terriers breeder used it on her show dogs but postage was more than the food, as we are in scotland.

 

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