[norfolk newbies]

Well our last to lamb first timer decided that yesterday was the day. Fortunately during daylight hours, less fortunately I was on my own..OH and children away at my niece's birthday party.

I figured early on during the day that she was likely to lamb, but did not pen her (mistake number one) although she was inside with the other ewes and lambs, and I had created an open pen area at the back. By midday I thought it was likely within the next couple of hours and lo' after my ( early for me) lunch...eaten on the advice from here that this sort of behaviour is likely to induce sheep to drop lambs....she presented a little ram lamb.

As she was industriously cleaning and bonding I thought I would leave well alone and come back in 30 minutes to put her into the pen ( she had lambed no where near it!) I went and got some bits and pieces and returned to find her eating in front of the hack rack and the lamb having moved with her. I went in to move lamb to pen only to find another lamb near to where she had lambed the first.  Its head/neck was twisted back. I rubbed it to no avail. I think I was just too late, there was no sign of life. I am gutted and so cross with myself.

I suspect it was the classic 'ewe left second lamb without licking sack off'..although lamb was not that gunged up, alternatively she may have kicked it ( she was pawing and raking hay a lot around first lamb).  If I had got to it sooner I might have been able to save it. (mistake 2 not penning immediately. Mistake 3 not hanging around to check on whether there might be a second). I do not even have the excuse that it was the middle of the night.

 I was not expecting twins ( as not that usual in Linc longwools), and having a) having one set already and b) expecting it with the previous ewe and being wrong,  I doubted my ' huge size = twins' formula and also my good luck at getting another set. Next time we will scan. ( possible mistake number 4 ...although hindsight is wonderful).

Mum is not great, she was bleeding irregularly after the 2 (HUGE) afterbirths for about 4 hours -dribbly trickles, nothing too ominous. I have since dosed with Penicillin . I think that as lambs were a decent size, and she is a first timer ( and delivery was so quick!!!) then there must have been some internal tearing.

Lamb keen, but although ewe is fine about bonding/cleaning, not so keen on the milking aspects. Once penned (after unsuccessful lamb revival) I borrowed a bloke from next door and he held ewe whilst I got lamb to take some colostrum, but I was not keen on keeping borrowed bloke there whilst I clipped pathway. I left mum and lamb  for a while then fed colostrum. Once OH got back we clipped (without tipping...which was fun, in the dark with a torch between my teeth) and managed to get lamb to suckle a bit. 
We are having to work at it, but looks as though lamb will be OK, but I still feel guilty about the twin. Lots lessons learnt, but that does not help assuage guilt.

Final tally. 4 ewes lambed, 2 gimmer lambs and 3ram lambs and 1 dead ram lamb.

BUT we are definitely keen to do it all again next year!!!!  The bouncing lambs are worth all the lost sleep and worry.
Thanks to all here for help and comments and moral support ( it was good to know that you are there when needed!!!)

Jo

[Old Shep]

Don't beat yourself up about this, you did your best  There is always something that we wished we had done differently. Even my Mum after over 50 years of lambing hundreds of sheep a year still blamed herself for not being in the right place at the right time each lambing season!  Guess it's compulsory!

Hope the ewe is ok.

[MrsJ]

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing for making you feel guilty?  Just remember that it is a long learning curve and every mistake is a lesson for next time.  Stop beating yourself up and look at all the healthy lambs you have.  And have a hug!

[Fleecewife]

I'm still kicking myself over our very first lambing from years ago. We had Jacobs, penned in the barn.  I had been doing two hourly checks and there was nothing doing, but I just felt I should keep a close eye on one particular ewe.  My family and visitors persuaded me to come and have a rest, so I let myself go with their view.  I went back after two hours to find that the ewe had delivered twins and trampled both to death in the confines of the pen.
So, we all make mistakes or do things in a way which turns out to be wrong.  What I learnt from that is to go with my own gut feelings and do things my way.

It is a shame that you lost the lamb, but the ewe has more of a chance of coming to terms with the one she has than trying to deal with twins.  If she had a difficult birth she will still be a bit sore so maybe not too willing to let the wee one near her nether regions    She will love it soon 

[in the hills]

nn- sorry your lambing ended like this.

Know how you feel. 

We will raddle next time to give us more idea when we need to step up with checks (after losing our first lamb).
The twins thing is difficult. We didnt expect any this year with our first timer Soays but ended up with three sets out of seven ewes! After the shock of the first set (we were woken before 5am by furious bleating from a little lamb just born and cross with his mum for ignoring him while she gave birth to his twin!) we guessed which ewes were likely to have twins and didnt leave these until the second twin had been safely delivered. Of course we could have been entirely wrong about who would deliver multiples so will look into scanning next year. Not sure about costs, whether anyone will be willing to scan such a small number and stress to ewes?? We are all learning!! Did leave the ewes who we thought would deliver singles, just for ten minutes at a time because they seemed distracted when we stood watching and tended to just stand and stare at us instead of tending the lambs. Got on with it when we backed away.

A local farmer told me that she knew that one of her ewes was expecting twins, it was penned and she was waiting patiently for the birth of the second lamb. She thought that it was taking too long so went in to investigate. She was horrified to see the lamb dead in the bucket of water. The ewe must have lambed standing up, straight into the bucket. She didnt know how she had missed it. 

I suppose we can only do our best and even then things can go wrong.

[Fleecewife]

Buckets of water are a great danger and not such an uncommon cause of lamb death.  We ended up getting the ones which hang on hurdles and try to judge how high to put them so the ewe can still drink but won't drop a lamb in there (or poop).

For twins - that's a difficult one.  We have never raddled or scanned.  We try to judge by overall size, behaviour and lambing history, but mainly we just assume that they will all twin (even Soays which do about half the time).   Eventually the placenta will come away so if there's only one by then, there won't be twins    You can feel from the outside if there is another lamb in there, although it's a skill I'm not very good at, or of course you can delve in but we prefer to let things go naturally unless there seems to be a problem.
We start our 2 hourly checks the day before first possible lambing date and continue until the last one has lambed.  We do a shift system overnight, so one goes to bed early (he does  ) and one lies in in the morning (me  ) so that neither of us gets too tired.
For scanning being stressful with Soays - I think that if your ewes can be rounded up easily then the scanning itself will not add extra stress, but it would be a good idea to get them in well before the scanner arrives so they have settled and got bored before they go through the system.

[Pedwardine]

Don't know where you are i.t.h. but I have a fantastic scanner in Frances who lives in Melton Mowbray, also have contact for another chap in East Midlands so let me know if you'd like details. They both do any size flock, Frances does cows too.
Norfolk Newbies- you just have to learn from the things that went wrong. Afraid oftentimes it's the only way. We've made mistakes aplenty and still will. It's the only thing you should take from it. We've all been there and we've probably all cried like babies  and bruised ourselves with self-kicking but it gets you nowhere. Look at the wonderful little critters you've got and pat yourself on the back for them. Enjoy them and don't dwell on the negatives.

[Rosemary]

Well done with your healthy lambs and ewes! Try not to dwell on the one that didn't go so well. I do believe that while we all try to learn from our mistakes and improve for next year, the sheep are out there thinking up new ways to thwart us  They just keep moving the goalposts.

Our scanner charges £30 basic fee - which is worth it to us. I don't like surprises - and we raddle and note down daily who's been covered, use a table to work out expected dates - and things still go wrong.

I've found this year that those expecting singles lambed on 147 days; those with twins were all 149 days.

[Remy]

I'm sorry about your lambs, but try not to feel bad - it happens to us all  .

I Iost three lambs this year having never lost any in the previous five years, I thought I could have done this/should have done that but I didn't, and it won't bring them back.  Lessons learned and move on!

Enjoy the successes and don't dwell on the things that didn't go to plan (with sheep things rarely do!). 

[mmu]

We all learn from our mistakes, and other peoples' don't we. and, if we're honest deep down we know it was usually at least partly our fault when things go wrong, but you have to move on if you want to keep livestock.  I must admit I am considering scanning, as I lost a lovely ewe lamb because I assumed the small ewe who had already had a large ram lamb and passed the afterbirth would not have any more.  That's until I popped in a couple of hours later to see feet poking out.  Only trouble was there was no head.  I wasted time trying to find it, unsuccessfully, before I called more experienced help, who eventually deliverd a dead lamb.  We are already fighting the weather, as I'm sure a lot of you are, and have lost at least one lamb to hypothermia, despite building adequate lamb shelters.  The trick is getting them to use them when they are young and dependent on their mums, who gaily call them out into the rain for a feed.  It's the roller coaster of lambing, but it is so disappointing to put healthy lambs outside and watch them become bedraggled and miserable looking after a few days.  But hey ho, if it's what you do, then it's what you do, and you can only do your best.  Good luck to everyone still in the throes!

[melholly]

My 'is-she-isn't-she' pregnant Ewe had twins this morning. The end of our first time lambing experience. We only had 2 experienced Polled Dorset - the other 6 of ours will be mature for this years Ram visit!

Both of them had twins but the first one we found dead in the field. Similar to other tales on here, I thought she was close, checked on her every 2 hours, in that space of time had lambed outside, never got to clean the twins airways before delivering the second. I'm still kicking myself.

I feel really stupid too as I think the 2nd Mum has produced 2 rams. I say 'think' as can just see this tiny teat like 'thing' right by the base of the tail and I'm now petrified of doing the castration rings as at the moment, I can't find the bleedin' obvious!

Also, if I castrate the males but wish to keep them will they be a pain to the 'all girl' lawnmowers and breeding flock I'm growing?

Mx

Mx

[in the hills]

melhooly - our tiny soay rams were easy to sex even at birth. If the teat like thing is right at the back near the tail ... could it be girly bits? Our soay boys had a small testicular sac right at the back and penis near the umbilical cord.        

[norfolk newbies]

Thanks All for your kind messages...
I still have lots of what ifs..but it does make me feel slightly less gloomy ( if no less guilty).

Pedwardine, we are now near Grantham, just off A52 on the MM side . We moved last year from Norfolk, so not Norfolk any more, and not so newbies, (except that this is our first year with lambing). Melton only 30 mins away ( in fact I was in the vicinity twice previous w/end for party at twinlakes and poultry sale).

I would like to take scanners (Frances's) details for next year ( I think cost probably a small price to pay to prevent happening like yesterdays)

thanks again and hugs to all those who also have had losses
Jo

[Pedwardine]

I'll send you a P.M. in due course. Frances charged £30 to scan 28 ewes so not expensive at all.

[Sylvia]

  I often think I should give it all up, just keep a budgie or a goldfish or something