[Bionic]

I want a few sheep 4/5 to keep my grass down.  Its long at the moment and I know I will probably need to cut it first as sheep will only keep it trimmed if it is reasonably short already.

Someone suggested speaking to the neighbouring farmer about having one or two ewes with lamps at foot. Does this sound a viable suggestion?

At what stage do I take them or some of them to slaughter for meat?

Do I overwinter any?.

I am sure I will be back with lots more questions

thanks
Sally 

[smudger]

Firstly Sally, you will get responses from people on here much more experienced than I, but what I can give you is my experience starting from a similar position ie zilch experience.

The first thing I would ask is do you actually want sheep?  People may joke that sheep are born to die, but even if they, don't you should really do some sheep keeping courses even if you aren't going to breed / lamb so you are prepared  (pictures of flystrike made my skin crawl, hoping I won't experience the real thing). 

You will expend a significant amount on buying equipment and medicines  (thoses who keep telling you you can buy it for a fraction of the new cost second hand are of course trying to be helpful but really it just makes you more frustrated when you have no choice but to buy new).  As a minimum you need sheep proof but friendly boundaries, probably some electric fencing to allow your field/paddock to be strip grazed or rotated. You need water supplies, if not in the field some way of getting it there and containers for transporting it plus the field trough/bucket.  Then there is dagging, worming equipment etc  (even more if lambing).  Plus hurdles c. £20 each and I'd start with 8-10 so you can pen and handle them. You can't go away without having someone to keep an eye on them - not as easy as finding kennels as I have discovered, but fine if you have helpful neighbours.

Second question is how much land - as a guide 3-6 sheep/acre.  But varies with grass quality and summer/winter. In hindsight I wish we had let farmer use our land for the first year and got some hands on experience first.  However on the positive side I do love my sheep now and if you get your own you can pick whichever breed/colour you like!

I would recommend Tim Tynes book. It also has a chapter at beggining which sets out the different sheep systems (of which I was ignorant).  So basically you can buy sheep/lambs at anytime of the year to sell without necessarily retaining your own stock all year (say thru the wet and cold winter, when you would also have to consider supplementary feeding), but if going down this route I would buy and sell locally with commercial type cross breeds rather than pedigree stock to get a good butchers carcase.  You can also buy orphan lambs (lot of work bottle feeding). Of course if you only have a small paddock you may want to have some pretty, rare breeds to keep as pets in which case I would source some wethers (neutered males) if you don't intend to breed.

Don't forget DEFRA paperwork, you need holding no and flock no.

[Bionic]

Smudger,
Your reply is a great help.  I already have a CPH number and was told by Animal Health in Carmarthenshire this morning that I can't get a flock number until I actually have the sheep.

My land is divided into 2 fields of just under an acre each and a small field.  It already has fencing as the previous owner had horses here. We just need to put sheep wire, which we have already bought,  along the whole fence line.  Basically the sheep will move fields every week .

The local farmers son does the shearing round here so I am sure he will do mine too but I am aware that I need a dagging tool. I have read so many horror stories on here of fly strike that I will definitely be on the look out for it but medication is a worry that I need to be prepared for.

thanks
Sally

[plumseverywhere]

I have read so many horror stories on here of fly strike that I will definitely be on the look out for it but medication is a worry that I need to be prepared for.
thanks
Sally

I only have 5 sheep, 3 are currently only a month old, the other 2 are a year.  Last year we were hit by flystrike due to the sheep group using our land not wanting to use preventative preparations, this year I shall be applying either Crovect or Clik.  Our local Countrywide are holding a talk/demo with the fly team on 2nd May, they will be covering which stuff works best for who (hopefully impartially?!) and I intend to go along. Might be worth seeing if you have one locally too?

[Bionic]

Thanks for the advice Plums.  I will have a hunt around to see if we have a similar group
Sally

[Foobar]

I started about 3 years ago, with a similar amount of land to you, so I'll give you my two-penneth. 

Lambs are going to be the most amount of work (worming, flies, weaning etc), so if you want an easy start into sheep I would go for some yearling ewes or wethers.  You can get them grazing over summer, and build up some sheep experience, and then come autumn you can decide what to do next - breed, eat them, sell them.

In terms of equipment then, you will be able to get away with a pair of dagging shears, a pair of foot clippers, a handful of hurdles (I have got away with only 4 hurdles, with 6 ewes+lambs for two years - you can make use of existing fences to make a larger enclosure), Crovect (apply after shearing) + applicator, something to dose with (wormer and flukicide) - again you can get away with a reusable syringe and dosing nozzle (see the last page of this (C) http://catalogue.coxagri.com/library_files/7_drenchers_and_vaccinators.pdf), and then other stuff as you see fit as time goes on.  Oh, and I see you are in rainy Wales like me, so I would advise something (covered) to feed hay from - I find that giving them access to hay when it's raining can prevent dirty bottoms, and hence minimises fly strike (assuming you control your worms too).  And a bucket - bucket train them, it'll make your life easier.

You will eventually need a livestock trailer too, but you will have time to search out a bargain one.

Tim Tyne's book yes defo, plus books by Agnes Winter: Sheep Health, Husbandry and Disease: A Photographic Guide & The Sheep Keeper's Veterinary Handbook.  Also read as much extra things as you can, good sources are: Eblex http://www.eblex.org.uk/returns/Better-returns-sheep.aspx, HCCMPW http://www.hccmpw.org.uk/publications/farming_and_industry_development, NADIS http://www.nadis.org.uk/.

You will need to work out how many sheep your land can support - obviously you'll have much more grass in the summer than you will in the winter, so if you want to keep sheep all year around, you might be best off having say 6 sheep, and then closing one field off for silage/haylage/hay in the height of the grass growning season - speak to your farmer neighbour about it, see if he can cut/bale for you.  That way you don't end up with too much grass in summer or too little in winter.

As for which breed, well, if you don't already have a preference, have a look around the local farms and see what they have - they will have selected ones that do well in your climate/surroundings.  If you think you will want to breed from them, avoid the big breeds like Texels etc - until you have more experience with lambing.

I would get yourself on a course too, even if it's just a one-day'er.

[Bionic]

foobar,
A very useful post.
Many thanks
Sally

[SallyintNorth]

It may be worth asking your local farmer(s) if the grazing would be of any use to them - they may offer to run a few ewe hoggs on it, or fatten a few wethers, or a few ewes with lambs.  That way you would get your grass mown, could learn about having sheep about without having to take full responsibility... just a thought.  There'll be downsides as well, and I'm sure there'll be folks on here able to tell you what they are!

[FiB]

It may be worth asking your local farmer(s) if the grazing would be of any use to them - they may offer to run a few ewe hoggs on it, or fatten a few wethers, or a few ewes with lambs.  That way you would get your grass mown, could learn about having sheep about without having to take full responsibility... just a thought.  There'll be downsides as well, and I'm sure there'll be folks on here able to tell you what they are!

Agree !!!  Unless you actually WANT sheep - leting the grazing  (even informally or for swaps) would be a LOT less hassle!  I only have 14 and have been staggered how expensive and worrying they are... but I like them and want the meat and fleece.  But OH is seriously not impressed and thinks we should have let the grazing!  I think scything 2 acres would be less hassle than keeping sheep!!!!!!
 (and I say that haveing scythed half an acre last year!)

[Bionic]

Thanks Sally,
OH has been chatting to a local farmer when he takes the dog for a walk.  He is going to approach him about the sheep and see what he suggests.  If he is willing to put a couple on our land so much the better for the time being.
Sally

[rockstar]

hi sally we bought 1.75 acres in september, done alot of work on fencing and hedgeing over winter.im having help from local farmer to keep the grass down through the summer. he his going to move 6 ewes with 6single lambs 3 wethers 3 thieves onto my holding ,when lambs are weaned off i will keep them and he will have ewes back.i will have wethers for freezer,not sure on females maybe keep on for future lambing !!

[Fronhaul]

There are clearly advantages in asking your local farmer but there are also disadvantages depending on how you want to treat your sheep.  Are these going to be pure lawnmowers or are they going to become pets?  How important is the appearance of the sheep?  And given that your local farmer is likely to have fairly large commercial crosses how wet is your land?   

If you decide to get sheep for yourself then I would take a wander round the shows in the summer and get some idea of the choices available to you.  Choose a breed that pleases you, sheep don't have to be large and white. For a limited acreage you may do better with a smaller breed than some of the commercial sheep (and find they are easier to deal with).   Above all remember that you are going to be interacting with them day and and day out so you want something that you like the look of and hopefully the temperament of.   

Two ewes with lambs at foot would probably be a viable option but one would definitely not be viable.  I would prefer to see a minimum group size of three.

The time to take them for slaughter depends on so many variables including the breed.

You could overwinter but you would ideally need some form of building for emergencies.

If you decide to ask the local farmer to put some on your land you need to be very clear about who is taking responsibility for the sheep.  Who is going to worm and fluke them, foot trim and who is going to check them (hopefully once a day at least). 

And because I can't resist the temptation to advertise the Jacob Sheep Society Open Day is taking place on 26th May here on the borders of Carmarthenshire and Pembrokeshire.  We are hoping to have a number of breeds other than the Jacobs here for people to look at (currently probably Black Welsh Mountain, Shetland, Hill Radnor and Shropshire and possibly Galways) and there will if things go according to plan be lots of sheepy people who like nothing better than to talk about sheep plus the odd sheep related demonstration.  Drop me a pm if you would like to come and I will send you directions.

[Bionic]

Fronhaul,
Thanks for the detailed email. 
I don't intend for the sheep to be pets although I do want to be 'friendly' with them.

The land is on quite a slope so it does get wet at the bottom and obviously less so as it rises. If I do get to the over wintering stage I have 2 stables, currently just storing garden furniture, that I could make use of.

The Jacob sheep society day does sound interesting, depending on what we are doing around that time, I might well come.

As you can probably tell I know virtually nothing about sheep but your mention of Galways has me interested.  I posted a thread on here some time ago asking about them as I had fallen in love with them at the Dorset show. They have lovely fleece but I am sure they are totally impractical for a novice as they are large sheep.

Sally

[Fronhaul]

We have a Galway here at the moment who has lambed recently.  She belongs to a friend who is lambing with us and who has already lambed another Galway here.  I don't know if these two are typical (although I do know a Galway breeder in the area I can ask) but they are both very quiet and gentle creatures, so much so they are destined to spend the summer in a large garden being cared for by a teenage boy with learning difficulties.  So not necessarily totally impractical at all if these two are typical.

[Bionic]

Fronhaul,
The breeder I was speaking to at the Dorset show was Roy Tucker. He is from Devon.
Unfortunately he doesn't have a website but I have just found the card that he gave me. You are getting me all interested in them again