[FiB]

I'm not going to post again untill I have something uplifting to say (and thanks for all the lovely threads with new lambs, helps to keep it all in perspective)...BUT....

Noticed another of our Beulah (bought in ewe lambs in sept so around a year old - not in lamb) looking off yesterday - she had been standing on her own day before and when I went up to her yesterday (lying down, but head up) she didnt get up - Mucky bum, watery nose - just like the one that died the week before of pasteuralla pneumonia.  Got her in shed, gave her a dose of wormer (Vet had given after PM last week and I was going to do this weekend) she got up and had a nose at the hay and hard food on offer and had a drink.  Dead this morning.  It does seem the same as the death last week- but shouldnt the Antibiotic administered to all have knocked that on the head?  I feel so terrible - 8 out of 10 now dead left.  Do I get another PM?  Are the Beulahs a bit fancy for my land (quite wet, 250m)(as suggested by all neighbours who stick to welsh mountain or lleyn)?  The 6 acres they have been grazing on is stripped, but they have been having Hay since November and hard feed since Last month.  I'm sure I'm failing them somehow, but I dont know what else I should be doing.  Cant ask neighbours as they are all hill farmers who operate on the almost nil intervention principal (bit of cake if they are in lamb, but no vaccinations etc).  End of ramble.  Better call the dead sheep removal guys (and THAT seems such a waste too).   

[Rosemary]

So sorry to hear about your sheep  It must be so demoralising, especially when you are making such huge efforts to keep them right.

[lachlanandmarcus]

I dont think you have done anything wrong, because Im having an op soon my Shetlands werent put in lamb and they are in the only well fenced field which didnt have much in the way of grass to start with and so they have been living on hay (made by us, they love it, turn noses up at the bought stuff!) and mineral licks and water all winter and they are all fighting fit and in prime health.

I feel really sorry for you, it is really bad luck.

The only vaccs I do routinely are the Heptavac P+ ones on the pregnant ewes (giving the lambs some immunity too).

[FiB]

Thanks Rosemary.  I do understand that deadstock is part of livestock (I took some strange comfort from previous responses regarding sheeps' aptitudes for death!), but I would hate to think I was not looking after the flock properly and loosing them through ignorance. So glad I chose not to breed in my (and the sheeps) first year.  Lots to learn. Thanks again.  Still sitting here, steeling myself to go and bring it up to where the knackers van will come.  Dead sheep, wheelbarrow,  big hill - needs at least 3 cups of coffee!

[Southfields]

Don't get too disheartened it may be poor husbandry prior to you getting them or just the way it goes.  Sheep are fickle animals and my grandfather always told me that sheep are born with the in built instinct to find the quickest way to die!
We lost a ewe last year who was 2 weeks off lambing and i beat myself up about it for weeks wondering what i had done wrong.
Your post shows how much you care about your animals, it is never easy losing them but unfortunately it is part of life.

[robert waddell]

for 8 to kick the bucket from 10 that is one serious problem    was it the vet that did the pm if yes get him to refer this on to the college (vet) or state vet service they do it for nothing as there is a serious problem

[Anke]

Sorry 8 out of 10 dead - that is a serious loss. If you bought these in as lambs in the autumn they most likely did NOT get any clostridial vaccination - the first thing for ALL bought-in stock (unless from someone you know and trust) is a double dose of Heptavac P+, an ivermectin based wormer and a flukicide.

I would never buy my first set of any livestock in an auction, a private sale where you can discuss your management plans etc with the seller should always give you a better start. If these sheep came from a fairly "mild" environment their first winter with you may just have been too much of a shock.

A lick would have given them extra energy when most needed (ours usually get one from late December onwards, or if snow on the ground earlier), and if you see them going through it a rate of knots without getting mucky bums, a little bit of concentrate would probably be useful - it does depend on your hay quality as well.

But we all learn the hard way most of the times with livestock.... been there myself a few times.

[Tilly]

-- poor you 
I really feel for you 
No one can turn the clock back- but I would think their must of been some underlying problem in the sheep that made them more susceptible to getting pneumonia possibly they had liverfluke?.
The antibiotics- If it was a long acting would have lasted 3 days, and I would have probably thought about given them another follow up injection.
 Sounds as if you have been working with your vet on this- so  have certainly not to blame youself.
CHIN UP
Tilly X

[feldar]

FiB are feel very sorry for you but i have to agree this is a serious problem for you  sounds like the stock from where they came may not be good can you restock with stronger animals? or is that not an option

[FiB]

Gosh sorry for mistype - I was in a bit of a state.... I meant 8 from 10 left.  - 2 from 10 dead.  Still a pretty big dint for me though and makes me very worried about the rest.

Been into vet this morning and they recommend PM again (they would???) and more alamycin for rest of flock (I didnt know it only lasted 3 days).  I Gave them Covexin ( I asked for Heptovac in the farm shop, but they persuaded me that heptovac was better, buggers)  when they first came and then put them into Heprovac P cycle last week.  Agree that auction is last resort.  Hoping that I can keep a closed flock and not have to do that again if these ladies can make it.

Salamonella test from previous PM ( Iwas waiting for that) was inconclusive, so they wish to test for that again.  It never rains etc...  I am now officially beyond skint!!! 

They have had access to lick all winter and the hay smells and looks great, but we cut it from our land - not sure if that could compound anything if our land is carrying any pathogens.

[Anke]

Ok, that sounds a bit better... but really any bought in stock straight onto Heptavac.

Lots of large scale farmers don't vaccinate their lambs if they plan to sell them all of before the winter, but I always do all of mine about 6/10 weeks after the last one was born, even if I sell them in October. It just seems a small additional cost compared to lamb prices of about 70 quid and more....

[Remy]

Sorry to hear of your loss, it really is disheartening when you have done everything you thought was necessary for their wellbeing  .

I lost three of mine this year, all from stock which I bought in late 2011.  I've had sheep since 2006 and never had problems like I've had with these, I'm wondering if the fact I've bought from several sources and put them all together (despite quarantine) has been the main factor.

I lost two to a huge worm burden (despite regular worming!) and another to pasteurella.  Nearly lost another one but thankfully she survived.  I will probably keep a closed flock from now on and keep up to date with worming/vaccinations and keep fingers firmly crossed!

[SallyintNorth]

Ok, that sounds a bit better... but really any bought in stock straight onto Heptavac.

Lots of large scale farmers don't vaccinate their lambs if they plan to sell them all of before the winter, but I always do all of mine about 6/10 weeks after the last one was born, even if I sell them in October. It just seems a small additional cost compared to lamb prices of about 70 quid and more....

To get lambs into the Covexin 8 or Heptavac-P system, they have to have two shots, 4-6 weeks apart, neither being given before the lambs are three months old as the passive immunity from the vaccinated ewe would interfere with the new vaccination.  Farmed commercial fat lambs should be away at 14-18 weeks old, so shouldn't really be needing vaccinations unless their mothers weren't vaccinated before lambing.  Lambs being sold 'in the store' would normally be sold unvaccinated; the buyer can then put them into whichever system s/he favours.  Breeding sheep may be vaccinated or not, depending on the vendor; if it was the other system to yours, in theory you have to give them two shots when it's booster time the first time to switch them to your system.

Often it isn't the cost of the med that stops a farmer giving a dose of whatever - it's the logistics of getting the sheep in for yet another handling plus the stress of the gather, move, treatment and journey back to field or hill.  Hill farms tend to still work on specific gathers - crutching and sorting for tupping; tups off; pre-lambing / scanning; lambing (if lambing in-bye or indoors); clipping; weaning / culling / drafting.  Here, when the sheep are in the pens for whatever reason, they get whatever is the next treatment due, or two or three if they're due or nearly and won't conflict with each other; BH hates having them in and not giving them something, as it means another gather and journey for them.

Having said all of which, once the older lambs are over 3 months old, groups of lambs are in reasonably regularly for being drawn for sale, so it would be easy enough to start vaccinating those remaining at a point.  I think most of us find that the immunity from the mother seems to last into the back end of the year, so any keepers would be vaccinated along with the keeping ewe lambs at this point.

[ZacB]

To get lambs into the Covexin 8 or Heptavac-P system, they have to have two shots, 4-6 weeks apart, neither being given before the lambs are three months old as the passive immunity from the vaccinated ewe would interfere with the new vaccination. 

Typo ? Heptavac-P can be given from 3 weeks old to give cover. I maybe wrong but am just looking at vaccinations for our little flock.

[jaykay]

Yes, Heptavac can be given much earlier than Covexin and the boosters are 2weeks apart rather than 4-6 for Covexin. I do my lambs at 4 weeks and 6 weeks.