[chairmanphil]

don't know where you all are, but if you are anywhere near Oxfordshire give me a shout! i know some great lads from tree sergeons to landscapers etc. not free but good lads and work very hard. 

[deepinthewoods]

im finding this whole thread really interesting, its the same complaint everywhere!! loads of work about but no one to do it,

where have all the tradesmen gone?

I tried to expand from a one man buisness a few years back, i took all the work that came in and hired and trained 4 labourers, i paid fair money but the grief i had was ridiculous, i spent so much of my time sorting lifts for guys whos car had broken down, paying out subs and fixing mistakes and balls ups that eventually after a year i gave up and went back to working alone. much easier!

don't know where you all are, but if you are anywhere near Oxfordshire give me a shout! i know some great lads from tree sergeons to landscapers etc. not free but good lads and work very hard. 

me too, i can provide some recommendations in this neck of the woods, however most of them have waiting lists.

 

[chairmanphil]

yep waiting lists go without saying! lol

[Small Farmer]

What I think is happening is this:

- with talk of recession firms, large and small, have been laying off staff and/or not replacing leavers.  They feel better if their order book is longer and their cost base is smaller.

- round here from 2007 people were not moving house but doing it up.  Now they're doing neither but repaying debt cos they're scared.  You can see that in the High Street closures.

- HMRC has got vicious and is chasing hard for tax, while the banks are puling back.  The many small firms that don't manage their cash-flow too well are being squeezed from both sides.  If you use today's income to pay yesterdays tax bill you're in deep poo.  Also I hear that blowing the whistle on your neighbour has increased a lot, and those who are caught get assessed for previous years.

So the competent and well-regarded are doing quite well because overall capacity has dropped more than available work, while working for cash has become much more risky.   Note Cameron announced a plan for giving tax relief to people who employed cleaners a couple of weeks ago.  Which is great for his rich mates while it will be paid for by catching lots of non tax-paying cleaners.

[chairmanphil]

What I think is happening is this:

- with talk of recession firms, large and small, have been laying off staff and/or not replacing leavers.  They feel better if their order book is longer and their cost base is smaller.

- round here from 2007 people were not moving house but doing it up.  Now they're doing neither but repaying debt cos they're scared.  You can see that in the High Street closures.

- HMRC has got vicious and is chasing hard for tax, while the banks are puling back.  The many small firms that don't manage their cash-flow too well are being squeezed from both sides.  If you use today's income to pay yesterdays tax bill you're in deep poo.  Also I hear that blowing the whistle on your neighbour has increased a lot, and those who are caught get assessed for previous years.

So the competent and well-regarded are doing quite well because overall capacity has dropped more than available work, while working for cash has become much more risky.   Note Cameron announced a plan for giving tax relief to people who employed cleaners a couple of weeks ago.  Which is great for his rich mates while it will be paid for by catching lots of non tax-paying cleaners.

nice reading your thoughts Small Farmer, couldn't have put it better myself mate! 

[jools66]

Decorator finally phoned back with quote £485  i only have a small staircase and landing
Have another guy coming tuesday so fingers crossed
Luckily my OH is an electrician and hes also hardy at most things just not decorting

[bazzais]

One of the major points why most people dont come back - is that there are still alot of people who expect a worker to come do odd jobs and working for minimum wage. 

You can tell someone whos not upto speed with the going rates of labour as soon as you meet them most the time.  They will use words like 'oh its not much work' and ' its just a little bit here and there'  - when people start to use phrases like that when you can see at least a weeks work and they expect it in a day its hardly worth putting in a £700 quote for 5 days as the client expects it to come to no more than their daily rate of £50.



Baz

[bloomer]

that was certainly the biggest problem i have ever found quoting for work

as soon as someone says what's your hourly rate i worry, i quote per job not per hour, so if a job done quickly and professionally is done in a couple of hours and costs £50 provides a better service than some one charging £6 an hour dragging it out all day to earn a bit more and doing a shoddy job so you end up getting someone else in to finish it off, the hourly rate for the first person is not unreasonable!!!

also fixed price working means if i do make a mistake and it takes longer than planned its me footing the bill not the client, this also stops clients nagging me to hurry up as they're worried about a clock running!!!

[Lesley Silvester]

Bloomer, I much prefer people to quote for the job rather than the hour.  It gives you more idea whether you can afford it or not.  Having said that, my friend's husband says £10 an hour so I tell him what I want done and in what order and how much I am willing to pay.  He gets done what he can and works hard.

[Sandy]

When we first moved in we had a simple job done that took a few mins, less than half an hour and the part less than £10, we got a bill for well over £100, I asked for a breakdown and I would pay and I never ever got one, to me that was one big rip off.....I also asked if there was a call out charge and they said no but even if there was the job should never have been sooo much, my ex and his family are in the same trade as the trades man we used so I do know the costs...never used that one again!!

[robert waddell]

i had the same problem with hiring out the digger  it was on an hourly basis plus transport and fuel  everybody (well the skinflints)always wanted it on a price basis there was so many variables involved  light work a tank of fuel could last a week heavy work it would last 2 days  and a tank is £500 also depended on what they were doing if transport of waste material was involved you are waiting for a lorry to come back always a difficult factor to work in      then you are pricing against somebody with no insurance and even less skills
once they knew you gave them there moneys worth and on time they saw the advantage of an hourly rate

[deepinthewoods]

£10 / hour.

what a joke.  anyone charging that is probably not declaring it. take income tax and ni off, costs for tools and disposables, leaves about £4.50!!

whaqt do you expect for peanuts?

[robert waddell]

well DTW  at £10 per hour he is not going to be paying tax and at that rate  will be claiming family credit

[SteveHants]

I've done the odd 'casual handyman' type job when I'm not busy with the sheep, but since I am self employed I have to put it through the company (who wouldn't?). I do quote by the hour and I'm fairly reasonable, but I have honestly had people stand there and offer me £8 an hour which leaves diddly squat after tax etc. In those cases, what I'll do is smile sweetly and never get back to them. I honestly can't see anything less than £15/hour being worth doing.

The funny thing is, the kind of people that offer me the lowest money have the highest incomes/biggest houses.......

I bet they wouldn't work for £8 an hour even after tax!

[Small Farmer]

Bloke up the road wanted to borrow our horse trailer so his daughter and friend could go to play dressage.  We said no cos its full of animal feed at the moment, but mostly cos he's never driven with a trailer before, and he isn't going to learn on ours.  We told him where to hire one but £70 for the weekend, shared between two families was too much apparently despite his two 09 plate BMWs, one an X5.

He needs a 4wd because he put six inches of shingle on his driveway and its quite hard to walk across let alone drive on.