Author Topic: ive scrounged some  (Read 12656 times)

harry

  • Joined Mar 2009
ive scrounged some
« on: January 16, 2012, 05:46:37 pm »
by emailing small local breweries ive managed to scounge there spent brewers grain not sure how much ime getting on a 2 week basis but asking anyone who knows how much is too much to feed this grain... i currentnly have KUNE KUNES 6-7 MONTHS OLD  will still feed them there daily  ration of sow rolls,,and there free range on poor winter grass at the moment... bit of luck there as someone who used to take it recently moved away, worth a few emails..... the large breweries sell it by the lorry load to feed merchants, also asked for any waste beer for them...... wonder if they drink this i will get any ground clearence done , trying to make sense of this, if anyone can please inform me what all this means,,, http://www.fao.org/ag/aGa/agap/FRG/afris/Data/468.HTM  ALSO FOUND THIS http://www.thepigsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11273
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 06:52:21 pm by harry »

HappyHippy

  • Guest
Re: ive scrounged some
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2012, 07:07:27 pm »
Somebody more experienced than me will be along soon (I've never been lucky enough to get my hands on brewery waste products.....yet  ;))
But basically what that's telling you is the protien levels and digestibility of the mash, how to store it ,for how long and what to do to improve it if you're storing it long-term.
There seem to be 2 main forms wet or dry. If it's the wet stuff it's going to go off after a few days  (in summer) but should store for 2 weeks plus in the winter by the sounds of things, so small regular amounts will be key when you're collecting it in milder weather Harry  :thumbsup: Also, it goes without saying if any of it does go mouldy that you shouldn't feed it to them.
If you're going to feed it to Kunes then I'd either stop or reduce their pig nuts significantly (but do it gradually til you get them used to the mash) Kunes get overfat on grains really quickly, but just keep an eye on their condition. Also check their poo (I know  ::) not the best job) but on the couple of occaisions I have fed grain to my Kunes it's come straight through undigested, so I would imagine that if that were the case they'd not be getting much goodness from it - but it's only a thought, as I said I've not fed mash myself so don't know for sure.
So far as I can tell (only had a quick look) they're talking about a crude protien level of around 30%, that's a bit higher than even grower or finisher meal, so definately need to reduce the nuts (or you'll have pigs as wide as they are tall  :D)

HTH
Karen  :wave:

harry

  • Joined Mar 2009
Re: ive scrounged some
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2012, 07:36:22 pm »
thats about what i made of it....... better get a shed load of fattener poultry as well to clear it up

HappyHippy

  • Guest
Re: ive scrounged some
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2012, 08:44:02 pm »
Any excuse eh ?!  ;) ;D ;D ;D

But keep us (or maybe I'm the only nosey one  ::) ;D) updated with how they go - if it's great I'll maybe take some chops as a bargaining tool and go back to my local brewery  ;) :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 08:45:49 pm by HappyHippy »

Sylvia

  • Joined Aug 2009
Re: ive scrounged some
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2012, 07:58:50 am »
We have a brewery a couple of miles away, I'll get in touch with them. I think all these feeding statistics are aimed at commercial producers. They should have a little bit at the bottom saying, if you only have a few pigs take a couple of buckets with you :D

oaklandspigs

  • Joined Nov 2009
  • East Sussex
    • OaklandsPigs
Re: ive scrounged some
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2012, 09:04:08 am »
As presumably your growing pigs, then protein usability is key.  Crude Protein deos not tell you how much food the pigs can convert to muscle.

The key here is that protein is broken down into amino acids in the pigs digestive system, and these form the building blocks for different proteins that the pig then uses to build muscle.  However the amino acids need to be in the right ratio for the pig.  So for instance if each protein in the food contains 1 A, 2 B and 3 C amino acids, and the pig builds muscle by combining 2 A, 1 B and 3 C to make one protein, then if you take 10 proteins you'll have

A 10
B 20
C 30

From this you can build only 5 protiens, as you need 2A's for each and you only have 10 A's to play with.  For these 5 proteins you'll need 5B's using 5 B's, leaving 15 as waste.  For C's, again you have 5 proteins, each needing 3C's, so use 15 C's, leaving 15 as waste.

So in effect from 10 original proteins you can only make 5.

If you do the above with Soya and Lysine as the animo acid, you can understand why pig food has lysine added to it.

For your brewers grain, lysine again is lacking, as a rough guide 5-20kg pigs need the "perfect" column, ie you would feed protein with the same levels of each of the AA (Amino Acids) as the pigs need.  From the article you quote I have completed the next 3 columns.  "Brewers" is what the article says it contains (bottom of article), "needed" is what can be used from that and "waste" is what cannot be used.

AA      Perfect   Brewers   Needed   Waste
Lysine      100   3.3   3.3   0.0
Isoleucine      60   5.4   3.2   2.2
Leucine      100   8.3   3.3   5.0
Methionine   30   1.2   1.0   0.2
Phenylalanine95   4.7   3.1   1.6
Threonine      65   3.2   2.1   1.1
Tryptophan  18   1.3   0.6   0.7
Valine      68   5.4   2.2   3.2
Histidine      32   1.8   1.1   0.7

So out of every 34 units, 20 will be used and 14 will be waste. You'll see that if you added more lysine, you could achieve a higher conversion rate, and have less waste.

Of course that only deals with protein, and you'll also need to consider vitamins and minerals as well a lipids and carbohydrates

As the pigsite suggests, you'll need to use this as only a portion of the feed, and the advice that higher than 35% would have a detrimental effect is interesting.



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SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: ive scrounged some
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2012, 11:16:05 am »
The 'Newcastle document' has protein at 5.5% (of which lysine 0.19), and says feed growing pigs max 10%, finishing pigs, dry sows and boars max 20%.  It doesn't recommend it for lactating sows or suckling piglets or weaners.  (When does a weaner become a grower?  And a grower become a finisher?)

No, Karen, you are not the only nosey one, I would love to know all about how you get on, harry!
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

harry

  • Joined Mar 2009
Re: ive scrounged some
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2012, 08:15:29 pm »
ime beggining to wonder if its worth it..... i thought i would get a trailer load of grain and give them a few  shovell fulls per day along with horse carrots etc and free range  then eat them.  :-\ :-\
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 08:17:17 pm by harry »

HappyHippy

  • Guest
Re: ive scrounged some
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2012, 07:45:20 am »
ime beggining to wonder if its worth it.....
It probably would be if you were buying huge amounts of feed Harry, but for all that 4 Kunes will eat, it is probably much less of a headache to stick with pig nuts  ;)

harry

  • Joined Mar 2009
Re: ive scrounged some
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2012, 11:42:04 am »
i think you correct, as if not eaten it will start to go mouldy etc

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: ive scrounged some
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2012, 05:39:24 pm »
i am surprised that no other posters get brewers mash   
what size of brewery is it that you are collecting from as small ones only brew what they can sell (bear/lager) we get mash either 2  or 3 bags at a time         this is the bags that the barley comes in
if it is left in the bags it goes sour quite quick you have to decant it into trugs or something else
GRAIN    wheat  barley   oats  all have to be processed   either milled rolled or bruised   if the grain is feed without either being done you are as well throwing your money away     if feed unprocessed they just s**t it out undigested    (the same as humans with sweet corn)   we were feeding to the pigs but are now feeding it to the sheep  and they love it          the brewery has to dispose of it some how and you have to collect it
large brewery's or distillery's are unlikely to even give you the time of day never mind there mash (feed merchants collect and deliver either to farms or for processing in feed mills
kunes if feed grain only will layer the fat on :farmer:
PS the husks in the mash may look like it is not digested properly

harry

  • Joined Mar 2009
Re: ive scrounged some
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2012, 05:52:53 pm »
dont know how much i can get till monday having a look.... the large breweries have a contract feed merchant collect it, this is a small brewery that has it once every 2 weeks, may try chucking it though my garden mulcher, maybe block the outlet up a bit so it gets smashed....... may be able to get the waste beer only...that may be better, do you think.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 05:57:10 pm by harry »

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: ive scrounged some
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2012, 05:59:19 pm »
what are you wanting to put it through the mulcher for
dont think you will get waste beer :farmer:

harry

  • Joined Mar 2009
Re: ive scrounged some
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2012, 06:54:07 pm »
thought the mulcher would break the grain up making it more digestable

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: ive scrounged some
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2012, 07:14:32 pm »
if it is mash from the brew  it is wet and already broken up
if it is dried grain a mulcher wont do it  it has to be a roller mill/plate mill or bruizer :farmer:

 

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