[wellies]

Rosemary you did better than me, I'm totally biased towards the Ryelands 

Dizzy Daisy they are a slow growing sheep so we have waited until their second winter to introduce the tup, think the girls will be two in April. Not sure if this is what everyone does but we were advised that this would be for the best. When we went to choose them the person we had them off gave us lots of advice for choosing a good sheep but after that it was all up to personal preference... I like to go by personality once they have been checked for the basics. Then you need to decide if you want coloured or white ones  I have three white ones and two coloureds and they have all been put to a white tup. I think but you might want to check that there is a greater market demand for white ones? Ideally I think its probably best to have one colour and then you can always use the same coloured tup but that just didn't happen here  Hope you find some lovely ones, I think Ryeland breeders always tend to be really helpful 

[Rosemary]

Yes, I'm not usually unbiased, so here goes 

The white / coloured Ryeland thing is a pain. I have coloured ewes i.e. a coloured flock but bought a white tup last year. I couldn't find a coloured one and panicked a bit. Leo is, however, a great tup. He threw 50% white lambs but they have to be registered as coloured. It's probably better to decide if you want white or coloured and stick with that unless you want to run two flocks, which some breeders do. The RFBS "discourages" breeders from mixing white and coloured.

White fleece is worth more if you're selling it to the Wool Board or commercially; coloured has a more limited market. I think the whites have a more "commercial" build and breeders of white Ryelands seem to be more commercially minded. Coloured Ryelands seem to be owned by hobby breeders. We got coloured Ryelands because we loved the look of them. The lamb is fabulous, regardless of colour 

Ours are lovely sheep. The heavy fleece can be a bit of a pain - they suffer if the weather is warm in spring, before shearing, and they can suffer from wool blindness, where the wool grows down over their eyes. But that's easily rectified with a pair of scissors and a steady hand. In my experience, they have good feet, are good mothers and the ram lambs finish off grass at about 7 months. Our five this year had a combined deadweight of 105kg.

Ryelands have become more popular over the four years we've ahd them and prices have risen quite a bit. White will cost more than coloured; if you want to show them, you'll find more classes for white than coloured too.

They don't really "do" jumping and running away means ambling to the next patch of grass.

So there you are, a completely biased account of Ryelands 

[lachlanandmarcus]

I wanted our Shetlands to be coloured but since we eat the boy lambs I really struggled sending off coloured lambs as they are all different and individual and I got too fond of them! Hence we now have a white ram and he has two castrated companion wethers which were the ones I failed to send off!

So whatever breed you choose, if you want to eat the offspring I recommend going for all white initially, to avoid this problem; if you find you are tougher than me you can always move to coloured ones!

[princesspiggy]

we had a few wensleydales at one point and they were very friendly. quite tall and happy to feed from the hand - and amazing to watch when they run cos of their fleeces. they are in a league of their own.

[jacob and Georgina]

i would definately consider balwen, never kept them myself but look really nice and a small and fairly rare i think!!

[norfolk newbies]

We are new to sheep and chose the Lincoln longwool ( as now near lincoln - no longer  Norfolk newbies, but Lincoln intermediates) .
Rosemary is correct, they are gorgeous and have a lovely temprament ( and fine with the kids), but they are BIG, there is a definate knack to turning for foot trimming. I have to get my husband to help, and we are both 6 foot. We have not tried showing, but looking at them now, I would not know where to start trying to prep the fleece for show condition ( I thin they have been swimming in the lick).

 I would definately recommend a smaller sheep for a novice to get their hand in.

[Bramblecot]

More by accident than design I have 4 Shetland x Ryeland ewes.  They are easy to handle and great mums.  Putting them to a Shetland ram has produced great, small hornless lambs (tups eventually grow horns but you will be sinding them on), and they all lambed without batting an eye (famous last words).  The main thing is choose something you like.

[Victorian Farmer]

Get the best that you can aford the more you pay the better the price i have 200 dorpas very good selling price.

[Small Farmer]

We are new to sheep and chose the Lincoln longwool
Rosemary is correct, they are gorgeous and have a lovely temperament ( and fine with the kids), but they are BIG
 I would definately recommend a smaller sheep for a novice to get their hand in.

Tilly told me she was cornered by her LL ram and had to call her dogs in to distract a sheep double her weight. 

i'd recommend going round some shows to see how they handle and talking to owners.  And if you're going for something a bit rare make sure that there are others nearby because otherwise getting rams etc is tricky.  is it wool or meat or both that you want.  Try making a soft scarf from GFD wool!  Southdowns are good natured and compact non-jumpers but make more fat on the carcass 

[Fronhaul]

First and foremost get a breed you like and want to spend time with.

If you want to discuss suitable rare breeds then contact the Rare Breed Survival Trust.  The representative for the South (and I think the border in RBST terms is beyond Lincolnshire although I may be wrong) is a sheep man and I am sure he would be happy to discuss the pros and cons with you.  The RBST website is a good place to start because it has links to many of the breed societies. 

Ryelands and Shetlands are both great choices.  I have to say that top quality Shetlands will cost a fair amount less than top quality Ryelands.  Both breeds contain many examples that are relatively easy to tame and ideal for children.

Balwens look very cute but they are flighty and the registration process also put me off because there are very precise requirements about their markings. 

Always remember there are good and bad temperaments in all breeds so if you are looking for pedigree sheep it is worth researching the breeders a little.  Having said that I bought my first Black Welsh Mountain sheep at auction having fallen in love with the style and presence of a certain lamb who now captures hearts at every show she goes to.  Mind her temperament is so fantastic we went back to the same breeder for more.  The most unpleasant sheep I ever met was a Devon and Cornwall Longwool ram who was frankly dangerous, but I am in no doubt that there are some very good natured examples of that breed around. 

I think you are right to look at smaller breeds especially with the children even if that does rule out a number on the watchlist.  Sadly it also rules out Victorian Farmer's Dorpers as they are a very large heavy breed.  Going to a few shows and talking to the breeders is a great way to see more if you can contain yourself until the summer.  Bear in mind though that what you see there will generally be very well handled indeed.

And good luck - have fun choosing!

[Small Farmer]

Whether its cars, partners or sheep people are reluctant to admit their mistakes to others, and sometimes to themselves.  So my lesser spotted dogwinkle sheep may bite, kick and attract every fly in the county but I'm not going to tell you that because I can only see their good points.

We have a mixture, because what we originally bought hasn't worked out for us.  Lots of others love them, so I won't identify the breed.  But they were our second choice when we knew stuff all about sheep.   Our initial choice was abandoned before purchase when we went to see the breed show at RASE and met lots of owners wrestling hundreds of sheep.  They all talked very fondly of their sheep and had encyclopaedic knowledge of the breed.  They were also all built like Charles Atlas, and that was just the women!

A friend has at least six different breeds and that's ridiculously complex when tupping.  I think he still hasn't found one he really likes, but he started with big Oxfords and is gradually downsizing.

I'd say take your time and enjoy the animals. Two of ours are commercial crosses with good feet, good skin but they're less friendly - and less trouble.

[SteveHants]

We have a mixture, because what we originally bought hasn't worked out for us.  Lots of others love them, so I won't identify the breed.  But they were our second choice when we knew stuff all about sheep.   Our initial choice was abandoned before purchase when we went to see the breed show at RASE and met lots of owners wrestling hundreds of sheep.  They all talked very fondly of their sheep and had encyclopaedic knowledge of the breed.  They were also all built like Charles Atlas, and that was just the women!

I don't think anyone would be offended if you didn't like their breed of choice, its horses for courses -and now I'm curious, of course. 

and re the post elsewhere in the thread about Balwens and markings, I concur. I would steer a mile clear of breeds that actively prioritise traits that have nothing to do with the 'usefulness' of the sheep. In the wrong hands, that kind of thing can (and in some cases, does) lead to very pretty sheep that are lacking in other areas. I remain surprised, now that the technology is available that things like maternal indices and EBVs are not used to add weighting to a particular animal of a particular breed. I actually think these are particularly salient in the more primitive breeds in order to improve/maintain the genestock.

[kanisha]

I am familair with terms such as coefficient of inbreeding and average relatedness but not maternal indices and EBV  so you have further information?

[SallyintNorth]

EBVs is 'Estimated Breeding Values', which the sheep and cattle industries (at least, maybe others too) use to help select breeding stock.

Based on the animal's own genetics and the measured performance of its ancestors, estimates are made of how it will perform.

Typical measures would be gestation length, birth weight, 40-day weight, back fat, for instance.  Milkiness of dams, mothering characteristics, number of progeny, etc, for female offspring.

The industry can use these to improve stock, of course.  And to put focus on particular characteristics in a given breed - for instance, I understand there is work ongoing to come up with a temperament EBV for Limousin cattle. 

I am not familiar with the term 'maternal indices' myself, so we'll have to wait for SteveHants to come back and tell us more.

I wonder if some of the breed societies for the less commercial breeds have ever thought about doing some measurements and recordings?  You make a good point there, SteveHants, and I am of the same mind that with many breeds of all kinds of livestock, too much emphasis can be placed on looks / colouring and not enough on fitness for purpose - we can end up selecting for colour over conformation; form over function.

[YorkshireLass]

Shropshire Sheep Soc uses EBVs, signet, etc 

OP - are there any farm/country parks/petting farms near you where you could go along and see some different breeds in the flesh but not in a show/sale ring?

In terms of sheep I have worked with...
Hebridean: small, "easy", usually good feet and good mothers, produce excellent lambs with bigger tups (a shropshire tup on heb ewes produced a lot of fat twins  ). Horned - which I like for handlebars! Can jump, can be flighty, wool is tricky to get rid of as it's quite coarse. Common in conservation grazing projects, so should be easy to get hold of. Good breed society. Thrive on rough, scrubby, rubbish grazing, with or without teeth....

Shropshire: like wrestling huuuuge clouds compared to the hebs! Big, slow, sweet. Good mothers again. Feet needed more attention than hebs. White wool easier to sell on. Good breed society again, and seems progressive in terms of breed improvement, developing markets for export. Good in tree plantations, need *actual* grass to eat  lambs should be docked - would this bother you?

North Ronaldsey: Disgustingly cute, many colours, rare breed. Good on rough ground again, and the breed needs help - interesting back story. Prone to copper toxicity, so need special versions of feed/mineral buckets. New tups can sell for ££££ if they're fresh off the original island(s). Small though - not productive in terms of meat. But probably very tasty!

Manx: Bigger and a bit stroppier than the hebs, good milky mothers, I like the fleece colouring. Fleece tends to be denser than the hebs. Haven't had much contact with breed society.


As a rule of thumb, the more primitive breeds are bright and fit enough to look after themselves on rougher grazing. It also means they're a bit more independent / bloody-minded. Different flocks/bloodlines usually have slightly different traits depending what the owner is breeding for