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Author Topic: Mystery Chicken Illness - Post Mortem Result in.  (Read 10335 times)

jaykay

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Cumbria/N Yorks border
Re: Mystery Chicken Illness - Think its Coccidiosis - Feel so guilty
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2012, 11:16:07 am »
No, Flubenvet is against worms, not coccidia (which are little microorganisms).

Personally I wouldn't bother with Coxoid. The active ingredient is amprolium, which is effective for keeping coccidia levels lowish but in my opinion not so good about treating an outbreak, for all it's sold over the Internet for that. It's what's in chick crumbs.

The active ingredient in Baycox is tolrazuril - it's much more effective.

I also wouldn't wait for a PM and would be arguing with my vet about this - how many more does he want to die? Why can't he give you Baycox or Intradine anyway, they don't do any harm if the PM turns out to be something else but if it is coccidiosis, as seems likely, at least you'll have given the rest a fighting chance. I'd hassle the vet and point out that they're dying and you don't have time to wait for a PM l :-*
Voss Electric Fence

StephB

  • Joined Feb 2010
Re: Mystery Chicken Illness - Think its Coccidiosis - Feel so guilty
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2012, 02:45:40 pm »
Well,  The vet now has a dead hen and some droppings to analyse.  He has promised to give me an answer by the end of today so hopefully I can pick something up first thing in the morning and get them treated.  Doesnt seem to want to precribe me anything until then.

Thankfully, none of the hens left seem to be showing any symptoms more than abit of runny bum.  But its only a matter of time.  As long as I can get something into them tomorrow then I will go along with the vet. 

I wonder if my self-diagnosis of Coccidiosis will be correct???   :-\

Will post an update when I find out.
Steph xx
Living on a 6 acre smallholding in Dorset.
Jersey cow, Aberdeen Angus cattle, small flock of Poll Dorset x sheep, Occasional weaner pigs, Geese, ducks and hens.
Polytunnel / Veg plot.

chrismahon

  • Joined Dec 2011
  • Gascony, France
Re: Mystery Chicken Illness - Think its Coccidiosis - Feel so guilty
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2012, 04:41:08 pm »
I'm watching this post with great interest. The flock in the Practical Poultry series article had underlying coccidiosis which was treated at great expense. Ours may have it with red in poos but after Flubenvet they reduced cosiderably, except for two. Hope you get to the bottom of it soon Steph and the rest are treated and OK. It is difficult with chickens to get an accurate diagnosis without a post motem, just maybe's or at best probably's.

StephB

  • Joined Feb 2010
Re: Mystery Chicken Illness - Think its Coccidiosis - Feel so guilty
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2012, 05:12:01 pm »
Well, the post mortem is in  - They have Mareks Disease.  Boo hooo.

Vet says the hen had a massive liver with tumours. The fact that all the birds have diahrrea isnt related apparently, some might fight off the virus but others may seccumb.  Though at the rate they are dying, she thinks they have quite a bad strain.  Have been advised to cull any that start looking withdrawn and ill and the only buy in vaccinated new birds as the ones (if any) that survive will always be carriers and could pass onto new birds.

Abit of a bummer really, that there is no treatment.  I was worried about the ducks and the geese that are free ranging with them, but apparently waterfowl will not catch it, which is a blessing.

xxxx
Living on a 6 acre smallholding in Dorset.
Jersey cow, Aberdeen Angus cattle, small flock of Poll Dorset x sheep, Occasional weaner pigs, Geese, ducks and hens.
Polytunnel / Veg plot.

jaykay

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Cumbria/N Yorks border
Re: Mystery Chicken Illness - Post Mortem Result in.
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2012, 05:14:43 pm »
Oh no, I'm sorry  :-* I've lost a couple of birds to this in the past - not nice  :-\

chrismahon

  • Joined Dec 2011
  • Gascony, France
Re: Mystery Chicken Illness - Post Mortem Result in.
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2012, 05:22:49 pm »
Extremely sorry the hear that Steph. The first time I have actually heard first hand of a properly diagnosed case of Mareks. Previously they have invariably been Lyphoid Lucosis which is triggered under stress and is isolated -we've had one definite and two possibles. I did hear of a new strain of Mareks in Lincoln but remain sceptical.

I was going to suggest operating a closed flock system where any new birds remain separated and no new birds are introduced into the infected coop. Don't know if the ducks and geese can carry it about though?

StephB

  • Joined Feb 2010
Re: Mystery Chicken Illness - Post Mortem Result in.
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2012, 05:32:06 pm »
Am wondering now if we ought to cull the last few birds, leave the ground clear of chickens for 3-4 months and then re-stock with vaccinated birds.??  although, like you said Chris, The waterfowl will not die of it, but I don't know if they can be carriers of it and in that case, killing the rest of the chickens would be pointless.

Not sure what to do??.  It may be taken out of my hands and I might have to slowly kill them all anyway. 

Has anyone got any ideas, ??
Living on a 6 acre smallholding in Dorset.
Jersey cow, Aberdeen Angus cattle, small flock of Poll Dorset x sheep, Occasional weaner pigs, Geese, ducks and hens.
Polytunnel / Veg plot.

deepinthewoods

  • Guest
Re: Mystery Chicken Illness - Post Mortem Result in.
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2012, 05:33:29 pm »
thats what i would do, i would cull and start again.

chrismahon

  • Joined Dec 2011
  • Gascony, France
Re: Mystery Chicken Illness - Post Mortem Result in.
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2012, 05:44:04 pm »
The Mareks vaccination isn't infallible Steph. I have heard they can still get new strains -if that's what they had of course? The critical point is the waterfowl being carriers, otherwise if they are all a bit sick now looks like culling them all and waiting before restart is the best approach. Absolutely everything will need a thorough cleaning though as I don't know if the disease can be transmitted on poo?

StephB

  • Joined Feb 2010
Re: Mystery Chicken Illness - Post Mortem Result in.
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2012, 05:50:19 pm »
I was also thinking of liming the ground in the orchard, not sure if that will help, but it can't hurt.

None of the geese or ducks appear ill so will have to chance that, and hope they do not carry it.

Think it might be kinder to put all of the chickens out of their misery, lime the orchard, find a very powerful disinfectant for the coops and then restock in the Spring.

Is that what you guys would do.?

Living on a 6 acre smallholding in Dorset.
Jersey cow, Aberdeen Angus cattle, small flock of Poll Dorset x sheep, Occasional weaner pigs, Geese, ducks and hens.
Polytunnel / Veg plot.

jaykay

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Cumbria/N Yorks border
Re: Mystery Chicken Illness - Post Mortem Result in.
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2012, 05:56:15 pm »
Chris, what do you mean by it's the first time you've heard of a properly diagnosed case of Mareks? Don't you regard the paralysis as diagnostic?

Mareks is transmitted in feather dander, so the clean-up has to be pretty thorough. It being a virus, does Virkon kill it? Off to find out. (Yes, apparently it does)

As far as I can find out, waterfowl do not carry it (they don't suffer from it).

Are your other chickens ill? Apparently the diarrhoea can be coccidiosis as Mareks damages the immune system and makes them more susceptible. If they survive, they may continue to excrete Mareks virus so infecting any unvaccinated birds you bring in.

So your options are to cull and start again. In which case do you buy vaccinated birds. If not, you rely on having cleaned it all away and not buying infected stock again. If you buy vaccinated stock then you should e able to keep any birds that survive from your current ones, since the vaccinated ones should be immune.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 06:06:06 pm by jaykay »

deepinthewoods

  • Guest
Re: Mystery Chicken Illness - Post Mortem Result in.
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2012, 05:59:23 pm »
thats what i would do, however i base my decisions firstly on the economics,and  i dont do vets for poultry and i cull the sick straight out. luckily i havent had to dothat very often. i keep around 20 birds.

StephB

  • Joined Feb 2010
Re: Mystery Chicken Illness - Post Mortem Result in.
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2012, 06:09:12 pm »
My vet reckons my birds probably had Mareks dormant in them when i purchased them and this quote from another website sounds just like my situation, as my birds have only just started laying:-

QUOTE:-
Why does the disease usually stay silent until my birds are in lay?

The virus and latency
This is due to the phenomenon of latency. The herpesvirus family includes ILT in poultry and cold sores in humans. Frequently such virus infections occur early in life without the bird or people knowing it has happened. The herpesviruses like to live in nerves, sitting quietly, protected from the immune system until some stress occurs. In poultry, the onset of sexual maturity is a pretty stressful period as egg laying starts. It is frequently at this stage that the virus becomes activated and suddenly causes tumours in these nerves or moves to other organs. The virus then turns the birds own white cells into tumour forming cells leading to lumps and bumps and a severely damaged immune system. At this stage, there is little the producer or his vet can do but try to predict how severe the outbreak is going to be.
Living on a 6 acre smallholding in Dorset.
Jersey cow, Aberdeen Angus cattle, small flock of Poll Dorset x sheep, Occasional weaner pigs, Geese, ducks and hens.
Polytunnel / Veg plot.

StephB

  • Joined Feb 2010
Re: Mystery Chicken Illness - Post Mortem Result in.
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2012, 06:16:18 pm »
Jaykay - Thanks for the research on virkon, that was something i needed to find out as I only have Smite and poultry Shield.  Will have to buy some.

As much as I REALLY don't want to kill all the birds, I think it is fool hardy of me to assume that i can rid the sheds and ground of 100% feather or poop residue.  and i also worry, as there is more than one strain of Mareks, that even bringing in vaccinated young birds in to mix with older postMareks birds will cause issues.

Heavens - I hope I don't have coccidiosis out there as well.  One contagious disease is enough for me to cope with.  Eeek
Living on a 6 acre smallholding in Dorset.
Jersey cow, Aberdeen Angus cattle, small flock of Poll Dorset x sheep, Occasional weaner pigs, Geese, ducks and hens.
Polytunnel / Veg plot.

Miss Piggy

  • Joined Mar 2011
  • Cardigan Bay, Ceredigion
Re: Mystery Chicken Illness - Post Mortem Result in.
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2012, 06:16:51 pm »
Sorry to hear your very sad news. Thinking of you, its just a horrible thing to happen.  :bouquet:

 

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