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Author Topic: Barf Diet  (Read 19511 times)

lunanlife

  • Joined Jan 2010
Barf Diet
« on: September 24, 2011, 02:54:49 pm »
Hi

Does anyone feed the BARF diet to their dogs and if so do they have any good sources of information?

knightquest

  • Joined May 2010
  • Birmingham
    • Knight Pet Supplies
Re: Barf Diet
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2011, 09:26:30 pm »
We do and we also sell it in our shop. Dr Ian Billinghurst is probably the leading writer on the subject but if you have any specific questions, I am more than happy to give answers based on our experiences.

Feel free to ask anything.

Ian
Ian (me), Diane (my wife) and 4 dogs. Ollie (Lab mix) , Quest (Malamute), Gazer and Boris (Leonbergers)

Old Shep

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • North Yorkshire
Re: Barf Diet
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2011, 11:46:11 pm »
I feed mine raw and they are doing really well! Also happy to answer any questions - but don't pretend to be an expert.  I think the poo speaks for itself.  When you feed kibble the poo seems to be equal in quantity to what you put in.  WHen you feed raw the poo is about 1/3rd of what you put in.  To my mind they are making more use of the food.
Helen - (used to be just Shep).  Gordon Setters, Border Collies and chief lambing assistant to BigBennyShep.

lunanlife

  • Joined Jan 2010
Re: Barf Diet
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2011, 10:47:23 am »
I have 2 dogs, a GSD and a Border Terrier. I started feeding them raw meat on the bone this week. I fed them the bones in the morning and their previous dry feed mix at night. They have taken to eating the bones well. The bones I feed at the moment are raw bones left over from our pork cuts. I also can get other sources of carcass bones as well as whole rabbits.

What I would really like to know is the quantities for feeding? I have seen on a number or websites that blended vegetables and fruit are added to the raw meat diet. I don't think my dogs would eat this by itself it would have to be mixed with minced meat.

ellisr

  • Joined Sep 2009
  • Wales
Re: Barf Diet
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2011, 10:55:53 am »
I am lucky as my dogs will eat anything, they love bones and raw meat as much as a bowl full of cooked vegetables Rusky my old boy will only eat all his veg if we hide a yorkshire pudding at the bottom but he has always been like that and at 13 I am not about to change his ways

knightquest

  • Joined May 2010
  • Birmingham
    • Knight Pet Supplies
Re: Barf Diet
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2011, 12:10:08 pm »
Hello lunanlife.
The veg isn't mega important. If you look at a rabbit (which is perfect for thr dogs by the way), then you need to replicate the ratio of bones to meat to organs and to what 'veggies' would be in the rabbits stomach. Obviously, there wouldn't be much.

If you do go over to BARF, then personally, I would cut out the dried food. It can create an inbalance.

The point made earlier about poo is also valid. Dogs on raw food absorb much more of the food.

Finally, most importantly, DON'T stress about it  ;) The breakdown of food ie meat and bones etc should balance out over a week or fortnight perhaps. Not every day.

Congratulations on making the change.

Ian
Ian (me), Diane (my wife) and 4 dogs. Ollie (Lab mix) , Quest (Malamute), Gazer and Boris (Leonbergers)

colliewoman

  • Global Moderator
  • Joined Jul 2011
  • Pilton
  • Caution! May spontaneously talk rabbits!
Re: Barf Diet
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2011, 11:08:24 pm »
tom lonsdale's book 'raw meaty bones' is imo they best source of info out there.
mine get meat, bones and offal. for veg matter they get what they find ie grass and blackberries!
dogs do not produce the enzymes needed to break down the cellulose walls in vegetable matter, so unless it's cooked (mine haven't figured out the hob yet) they can't digest it anyway ;D
one word of advice though, ask 100 raw feeders how to do it, you'll get 100 answers saying the other 99 are awful.
does your dog have plenty of energy?
are his teeth clean or getting cleaner?
is his coat shiny? is he the right weight?
check,check check?
you are doing fine! we've fed dogs meat since we first domesticated them, keep it simple. your dog will love you even more  :D :dog: :dog: :dog:
We'll turn the dust to soil,
Turn the rust of hate back into passion.
It's not water into wine
But it's here, and it's happening.
Massive,
but passive.


Bring the peace back

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
  • Qui? Moi?
    • ABERDON GUNDOGS for work and show
    • Facebook
Re: Barf Diet
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2011, 12:06:44 am »
I would be happy to feed raw but I'd be scared I'm not giving them enough.  How do you work it out?
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

colliewoman

  • Global Moderator
  • Joined Jul 2011
  • Pilton
  • Caution! May spontaneously talk rabbits!
Re: Barf Diet
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2011, 03:20:07 pm »
there is a formula of something like 5 % of the dogs ideal weight per day or summat like that.
  but in easy terms i have 2 border collies.
if it's chicken for tea, they'll have a half each. if its tripe its about a pound. chicken carcasses? 4 each. beef skirt again about a pound.  if i get rabbits, they'll have one each and go without the next day cos i can't be arsed with chopping fluffy bunny up ;D

if they get skinny feed em more, if they get fat feed em less! i would say the dogs weight would show within a week, you wont starve your dog, i promise!

i would start with chicken, and it would go something like this.

smallie type, terrier, toy poodle, dachie or a cat. 1/2 a chicken portion.
cocker, large terrier, whippet. 1 chicken portion.
medium size woofer, springer, collie, toller, etc 1 1/2 (in my world it would be 1 one day 2 the next cos i'm lazy!) or half a chicken.

labragator, goldie, staff, big lurcher, greyhound, gsd etc a whole chicky.

the actual preparation in my place is.
take meat out of fridge, unwrap, hand to dog.


We'll turn the dust to soil,
Turn the rust of hate back into passion.
It's not water into wine
But it's here, and it's happening.
Massive,
but passive.


Bring the peace back

lunanlife

  • Joined Jan 2010
Re: Barf Diet
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2011, 03:37:56 pm »
My 2 dogs are very fussy. They are very good in eating the amount of food that they need. If they are not hungry then they won't eat food put in front of them.

I feed them the dry food as well at the moment as I thought a gradual change might be better. I will give less of this the more bones they get.

Both dogs spend nearly everyday working alongside me so they are very active. This is probably the main reason why the limit the amount they eat by themselves. There has been no visual sign of less energy as yet.

They do graze on grass as well and are often bring it back up after. So would it be ok to limit the amount of veg to very little?

Do you all feed the dogs outside? (hygiene reasons)

Do you skin the rabbit/chickens before feeding?


colliewoman

  • Global Moderator
  • Joined Jul 2011
  • Pilton
  • Caution! May spontaneously talk rabbits!
Re: Barf Diet
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2011, 06:30:39 pm »
i dont deliberately feed mine any vegetables unless i happen to chuck em a bit of my carrot etc.
i  dont skin or gut rabbits unless they've been shot  with an air rifle in that case i cut off the head (where they were shot)
chickens are fed as is. unless they are cull bird, then i'll skin them because i'm too lazy to pluck or clean up feathers if i feed the birds feathers on ;D
i feed outside normally because i live in a caravan and there isn't room for them to lay down and have a good chomp. but my last dogs were trained to eat theirs of their mats.
We'll turn the dust to soil,
Turn the rust of hate back into passion.
It's not water into wine
But it's here, and it's happening.
Massive,
but passive.


Bring the peace back

Old Shep

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • North Yorkshire
Re: Barf Diet
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2011, 02:48:59 pm »
The quantity is around 2 to 3% of body weight per day.  So for example my big setter is around 28kg - so when he is working a lot he gets upto 1 kg a day, when it's out of season he gets 700g.  However my littlest setter Jenny weighs 19kg but is really slim and fast - so she gets about 700g if I feel she's too skinny.  I don't weigh it out - I just guess!  I get a mixture of Durham Animal Feeds minced chicken or turkey (which has bones minced up in it) and Natural Instinct which is dearer but has a few veggies and additives such as Vit C and flax oil etc.  For anyone nervous about switching from dry Natural Instinct is really good, and is reassuring until you get the confidence to do your own thing!

If this works - I think Jenny is a really good advert for raw feeding :-)

Helen - (used to be just Shep).  Gordon Setters, Border Collies and chief lambing assistant to BigBennyShep.

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: Barf Diet
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2011, 04:45:14 pm »
I have been watching this thread with interest.

When I started with dogs (crumbs, it's about 50 years ago now  ::)) you fed them meat and biscuits.  Proper biscuits made out of whole grain - basically oven-baked bread pieces.  Some people cooked the meat and some fed it raw.  If you fed raw you needed to feed about half the quantity of cooked as it lost so much in the cooking.

I fed all my dogs pretty much the same way until I started with working collie type dogs.  You can't feed them as much meat protein as this; they've been bred for generations now to do a lot of work on maize and not much else.

Anyways, until the collies, I would feed a 20-25kg well-exercised pet dog about 4-6 oz raw meat plus a couple of mugfuls of biscuits a day.  (4oz-6oz is about 120-180g.)  Maybe add a raw egg every other day.  Gravy to taste if I had some to spare.  Big marrow bones (always raw) to knaw on 2-3 times a week.  Carrots and other crunchy veg (yes raw) pretty much as they wanted them. If they were putting on weight I'd reduce the biscuits and cut out the gravy.  If they were too slim I'd increase the veg, biscuits, and give them more table scraps including gravy.

The raw meat would be in chunks to maximise chewing - one small lamb's heart would be one dinner and they'd get it whole or in two chunks.

Vets always told me my dogs were fantastically healthy and had tremendous teeth.  But they did stress that it was important not to feed more raw meat protein than I did, as otherwise I would do for their kidneys at an earlier age than they should start to fail.  Dogs are not designed for as high a protein diet as cats, I was told, and hence the need to keep their animal protein intake as low as possible consistent with providing the essential nutrients for an active life.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2011, 09:22:52 pm by SallyintNorth »
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cow, beef cattle, pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Old Shep

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • North Yorkshire
Re: Barf Diet
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2011, 07:32:47 pm »
That's very interesting Sally, and sort of ties in with what mine get - should have mentioned in my post that eg the 700g mine get is not all meat but with mixer biscuits too, but I will keep an eye on their protein intake.

Also very interesting is what you say about sheepdogs and high protein levels. I've heard before about them getting hyper on too much protein.  When I was a kid on the farm they all got fed WInalot mixer biscuit and that was it - seemed to do ok and put a full days work in.  Can I ask what you feed your collies please?
Helen - (used to be just Shep).  Gordon Setters, Border Collies and chief lambing assistant to BigBennyShep.

colliewoman

  • Global Moderator
  • Joined Jul 2011
  • Pilton
  • Caution! May spontaneously talk rabbits!
Re: Barf Diet
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2011, 08:25:10 pm »
it is amazing how every animal is different in it's need!
my 2 are both border collies and do really well with no added biscuits, and all the raw meat, offal and bones they want. a point to remember when calculating protein amounts though is, 100 gms of chicken does not equate to 100 grms of protein. i think it's about 40 gms per 100 gms.
sally it's odd isn't it, if i feed mine maize or oats, they are so hyper they are a nuisance!
i wonder if different breeding lines or geographical location has any factor in how different dogs deal with different foods.

hmmmmmm, i may look into this further! (we need a rubbing of the chin icon!)
We'll turn the dust to soil,
Turn the rust of hate back into passion.
It's not water into wine
But it's here, and it's happening.
Massive,
but passive.


Bring the peace back

 

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