[nihicib2]

Well we are just about ready to start milking our Dexter cow Doireann, she still has her calf Hank suckling so we were going to separate them at night and milk in the morning, however our first attempt wasn't great, because she's so short, first of all its hard to get a bucket or bowl under her, however the biggest problem we have is that as soon as we're ready to go, she goes, literally, pee and poo everywhere, we tried waiting a wee while but its like a bottomless (excuse the puns  ) pit.

So if any of ye out there have hand milked a short legged Dexter, then can you give me some advice as the best way to go about it.

Thanks

Brid

[Lostlambs]

I milk a dexter who's not a short leg but still pretty low, I share with the calf as well. I find they will pee and poop because their still upset about the whole business.My Calla will back out when she has to go and I don't stantion so she will back out then return when she's done. Alot of people say not to milk without a station but I just haven't got one yet. I feed ration only when she's milked so that keeps her there. I don't use a stool and usually just squat down low sometimes on one knee if I get tired. I milk off both sides so I can change position and not get too stiff-getting a little old I guess. She has some days when she figures she's done before I am and sometimes gets a little cranky but a stantion would probably keep her better in line. She is pretty easy going and just tries to leave not kick. I've heard of a few that hold the bucket between their calves instead of on the floor but I haven't tried it. Hope this gives a few ideas :wave:from canada

[SallyintNorth]

I hand-milk a Jersey and she has a calf on her too as she gives way more milk than we need for the house.

Rosemary asked me to write up how I got Hillie trained for milking, this is the thread:
http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=13031.0
I started training her before she had the calf, so your situation is very different as your cow is used to rearing her calf without intervention and now is being asked to accept big changes.

I agree with LL, the peeing and pooing is to tell you that she is upset. 

Firstly, I would give her cake while you milk her.  She deserves it!  And it will certainly help her to think about something else while she gets used to these new sensations.  Your instinct to not teach her that she gets cake if she is fractious and to train her to expect cake when you have had your milk is good - but you can do both these things and still let her get cake while she's being milked.  Save a bit for afterwards, and don't ever tip more in her bucket unless she's standing quietly where you want her - but that can be just a moment of stillness!  She will get the message, honest - they are way more intelligent than often given the credit for.

If you are worried about having to give her too much cake, mix it with molassed chaff or something to bulk it out so it takes longer for her to eat it.  Also, remember that she's learning and is finding it difficult - she'll be more settled and need less cake when she gets used to it all.

Secondly, having let her rear the calf without intervention up to now, I would build up towards where you want to be slowly, step by step, rather than try to get everything how you want it in a big bang.  It probably doesn't matter too much what order you do things in, only that you make small changes and get her settled to each before introducing the next one.  So, for instance, I might, over the course of a few weeks:

• get her used to coming in and being tied up and getting some cake
• start to take the calf away while she has her cake
• start to 'mess on' with her, stroking and so on, and around her udder too, while she's eating her cake
• see if I can get the odd squirt of milk while I'm messing on (just squirt it on the floor, not worrying about buckets or sitting under her yet)
• if there isn't even a little bit of milk without keeping the calf off, start taking the calf off overnight
• see if I can get a few squirts into a plastic jug (so no buckets or sitting under her yet)
• introduce a small bucket and start to sit under her (or squat next to her)
• if she's still not letting me have the milk even though she's getting cake to eat, maybe try letting the calf out to suckle on one side while I take some milk from the other, or from the back

and so on.

Whenever she resists, use 'pressure and release'.  Ask for the teeniest bit of what you want, as soon as she gives even a fraction, immediately remove the pressure.  Wait a few seconds then ask again.  Again, as soon as she yields, stop asking.  Do it a few times today then leave it and do some more tomorrow, or this evening.

As to physically how to milk a short-legged cow, hopefully there will be others with more experience of that to offer ideas.  I did start milking Hillie with the bucket on the floor, held steady between my feet, but I didn't find that comfortable at all, plus it's too easy to get a foot-in-bucket or kicked-over-bucket incident (whether by accident or design  ) so I now sit on an upturned tub and have the bucket between my calves/knees.  I can get snugly underneath her like this - but she'll be quite a bit taller than your Doireann.

Hillie is now an absolute dream to manage.  She never ever poos or pees in the milking parlour (it's just a stall in the byre, but I like to call it the milking parlour  )  She will stand quietly chewing the cud if she's finished her cake before I have finished milking her.  But we didn't get to here overnight!

Good luck, take things slowly and hopefully you will soon be enjoying your own lovely milk 

[robert waddell]

you are maybe not gentle enough with her

[TheCaptain]

I'm no expert but it's all about routine with - we got Betty from a herd with calf already on so it was really touch and go as to how it would work out.  Seen as we didn't have to worry too much about milking her as the calf was taking it (although the calf couldn't get to the rear udders as they've collapsed) so we just concentrated on getting her into her (DIY) stand/crush giving her sugar beet to get her in, then a full hay net whilst she's being milked then more beet after she'd finished.  If she'd been moody then she wouldn't get the beet at the end, as said above, they're intelligent and she soon cottoned on.

As for milking position - because of the design of my stand and my height I actually sit down to milk her, and sometimes lie down extending my arms out to milk her. As the weather is still quite nice we do it out in the field but will move into the stable when the weather is consistently poor.

[Mel Rice]

If you could train her to be milked in a cetain place...how about a raised area , as the way many milk goats?

[nihicib2]

Hi all thanks for the advice, we have her in the crush for now with the calf at her head, she seems happy enough in the crush and gets fed while being milked, I did halter train her before she had her calf so although stubborn is happy enough to stand and she is used to being stroked and petted.  I milk my goats so I know Im being gentle enough when milking her, she lets down the milk fine but its just the whole peeing and pooping situation, I guess we must just take our time and start tying her up in the stable and trying that way.  She is very short and that also hinders me when trying to milk, can anybody post some pics of their milking stand till I see if we can rig something like that up.

Once again thanks all for advice

Brid

[SallyintNorth]

Very glad to hear that you are making progress, Brid.  Hopefully she will get accustomed to it and the peeing and pooing will stop.  A friend with a similar situation used to try to set it up so that the the cow would get splashback when she peed - most cows don't like to get their pee splashing back on their own legs! 

I don't think a pic of me on an upturned bucket under my Jersey would help you much; I'll have to let those with milkers nearer to the ground help you out on that one!