[sabrina]

As I have decided not to get another German Shepherd I thought a smaller dog would be a better playmate for Jake. Tanya is 10 and if she see her 12 birthday then I will be amazed. She has had hip problems since she came to us at 6 months old. Has anyone had the experience of the Shetland collie or Cocker spaniel. Do they make good family dogs, what are the health problems and are they easy to train. Bearing in mind we have the ponies, pigs , chickens and ducks also sometime sheep. Any advice would be helpful.

[jaykay]

Ok, we've had elderly shepherds mixed with other dogs. Our most successful pairing was with a Springer spaniel.

My experience of Shelties (friend's dogs only) is that they are a bit nervous and highly strung.
Cockers can be lovely but can also have health and temperament problems - you'd need to buy carefully.

The nicest little dog I have seen in this line for a long time is 'cockerpoo'. He's bigger than a cocker, more springer sized so I don't know what the poodle was but he is bouncy without being excessive, very friendly and of course, sheds no hair.

As kids we had a mongrel which was a spaniel/collie cross of some sort and he was also a lovely family dog.

[cuckoo]

My experience of shelties is they can also be nervous and yap (a lot).  The temperament problem people generally associate with spanials (cockers) is "rage syndrome" - thought to be associated with solid colours - where the dog suddenly flips and becomes very aggressive for no apparent reason.  Mind you I dont think this is very common.  I would prefer a spaniel over a sheltie.  They can be trained.  They are very "busy" dogs - they need something to do - especially working strains.  I have an Irish water spaniel - who is absolutely adorable - she is very bright, freindly, hardly barks, is good with people, other dogs, stock and my toddler.  She does like carrying things but that is only natural for the breed.  Saying that I agree with the earlier post - cockerpoos are lovely too.

[doganjo]

Ok, we've had elderly shepherds mixed with other dogs. Our most successful pairing was with a Springer spaniel.

My experience of Shelties (friend's dogs only) is that they are a bit nervous and highly strung.
Cockers can be lovely but can also have health and temperament problems - you'd need to buy carefully.  Parti colours if tested don't have health issues, Cocker Rage Syndrome is/was in solid colours

The nicest little dog I have seen in this line for a long time is 'cockerpoo'. He's bigger than a cocker, more springer sized so I don't know what the poodle was but he is bouncy without being excessive, very friendly and of course, sheds no hair.Not automatic with poodle crosses I'm afraid - just lucky!

As kids we had a mongrel which was a spaniel/collie cross of some sort and he was also a lovely family dog.

[Rosemary]

A friend of mine used to have cockers - her blue roan was the nicest dog. No experience of Shelties - think the coat would be a lot of work 

[doganjo]

Cockers can be lovely but can also have health and temperament problems - you'd need to buy carefully.  Parti colours if tested don't have health issues, Cocker Rage Syndrome is/was in solid colours

This is the biggest problem - ALL puppy buyers should buy carefully - not just Cockers!  It's a case of educating the general public to ASK for PROOF of health testing, not just accept a phrase such as that recently seen on epupz - 'no testing done as my dogs are all healthy'  How do they know their dogs aren't carrying some disease that will cause terrible anguish and pain to both dog and owner!  Not to mention cost!  Sorry to rant, it is a pet hate of mine that people can breed a pet and not check ALL the health tests -  I am lucky that all I need test for is hip dysplasia (under the Accredited Breeder Scheme) at an average cost of about £150 each dog, but even Cockers and labs need their eyes tested every two years as well as hips.  How many breeders do that? It's compulsory for members of the ABS - pups won't be registered otherwise.  Which is probably why people don't sign up to the scheme - they know they can get off with selling substandard pups.  An ABS friend of mine has 2 doodles still left, a 4 week old litter of GSPs with no enquiries, and another ABS friend says she is awash with Labs and Vizslas and has NEVER had so few enquiries for pups before.  These are all from health tested parents!  What is happening to the World?

[Fronhaul]

I think if you are thinking seriously about a cocker spaniel one of the first decisions you need to make is whether you are looking for a show type cocker or a working cocker.  This is a breed where the show types and the working types have moved a fair distance from each other.  My experiences are second hand but I have a good friend who runs three working cockers.  I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong but the working cockers I have seen are usually a little leggier, their ears aren't as long and their coat isn't usually as thick and they have less feathering.  Both types are very active but the working strains will require more stimulation than the show strains.  The ear issue is potentially a big issue in a country environment as spaniels ears aren't low maintenance.

The parents of the last litter of working cockers I saw from a breeder I know and trust were PRA, FN and HD tested. 

I am sorry but Cockers do have health issues and it is only by testing and not breeding from affected dogs that FN has become less prevalent in the breed. 

Having said all of that if you allowed health issues to put you off completely rather than as Doganjo suggests, asking for proof of test results, then you would probably be better off with a budgie - although someone will no doubt tell me that budgies have health issues as well.  There are loads of healthy cockers out there both show and working strains.  There are three living on this farm, one of whom is a charming little girl who was abandoned after a shoot in Ireland.  All three are great dogs, good with stock and with people.

Try these websites - the breed clubs for the two breeds you are thinking about:

http://www.thecockerspanielclub.co.uk/index.htm

http://www.essc.org.uk/

And good luck.

[doganjo]

Absolutely right about the split in the breed.  I used to show mine and they would work too, but I couldn't do that if I had the same ones now.  I didn't say Cockers had no health issues, I said that if they were tested they hadn't!

If everyone was sensible (or do I mean educated?) and ONLY bought from health tested dogs then we could eradicate most dog diseases or at least minimise them.

I daresay budgies have temperament issues too lol - mine certainly did - I had a Cocker with a hole in her nose! 

[Fronhaul]

Misunderstanding Doganjo - my fault I misread the quotes.  Can't agree more with you that people need to reject pups if they aren't from tested parents.

[sabrina]

What other small breeds can anyone suggest, as Jake is our Jack Russell I did think about getting another but friends who have more than one terrier say they are prone to fighting. He is my only experience of a small dog as I have always had Setters and German Shepherds in the past. also Tanya our remaining Shepherd is missing having another dog to play with, Jake is always to busy to play unless he is in the back garden with his ball. She seems very depressed and I have been trying to give her more time but its not me she wants but her friend back. I do believe that because Fallon never came home once put to sleep that Tanya is still looking for her. I have Fallon's ashes but that's not much help when Tanya rushes to the car looking to see if we have brought her back. Its just too hard knowing what to do for the best.

[jaykay]

Poor Tanya 
I think I'd go for a spaniel-ish friend for her - they're playful and not aggressive so would fit with both your Shepherd and your Jack Russell.

So - working Cocker, cockerpoo or mongrel that's got a lot of spaniel in?

[Old Shep]

If you enjoyed your setters then you may enjoy a working cocker as I am told they have similar traits - both the lovable bits and the naughty bits My only experience of Shelties is at agility competitions and I find them annoying nervous yapping things, but that's just me - I am sure their owners love them very much, and seem to keep to the breed so must be ok  Have you any friends with either breed, or could you hang around the local park (maybe that's not such a good idea) just so you can meet some different breeds and see if you like them?

Don't let the health tests put you off - there will be lots to choose from from tested parents if you are prepared to travel. Good luck!

[doganjo]

Personally I find I trip over my 'small' breeds regularly, and others - my pal's Cockers are always under your feet.  I'd rather have a more placid medium sized breed that doesn't leap to it's feet every time I come near - or maybe that's just the nature of hunting dogs?   Mind you my big German Wire used to just lay around until she got the command to go out.

[clumbaboy]

Hi,
  Have you thought about a clumber spaniel, placid, very easy to train( they have to think about it before they do it, so mischief is easy to spot) quite a large breed. Working stock are generally lighter weight. im on my second now. They are known as the ''old mans gundog'' because of their slow nature. they have a fantastic temperament and mine plays with other dogs no matter how small they are.
You can find further info from Debbie Zurick at the working clumber society website

[doganjo]

We nearly had Clumbers in the late 80s - but health issues such as haemolytic anemia, disc problems, cardiomyopathy, entropion, and hip dysplasia put us right off.  Hope they've improved the breed since then.  The Breed Club set up a Health commission - http://www.clumberspanielclub.co.uk/health/general.html

The KC expects these tests to be done -  Hip scoring;  DNA test - PDP1; Eye testing

To be honest there aren't many breeds that don't have any required tests.  Best to check the list for whatever breed you fancy and go to a responsible ABS breeder for a puppy.