[Pasture Farm]

I am considering having my 18month old Lleyn Tup vasectomised to use as a teaser in the hope i can compact lambing.

The cost for the operation is £145 I'm not sure if its worth the outlay

My question is does anyone have experience of this method of using a teaser and does it help in a more compact lambing period.

[Rosemary]

Phew, sounds a lot. Our vet castrated our five month old wether for about £10. Maybe a vasectomy is more difficult 

I can't answer your question but I usually put the tup in the paddock next to the ewes for about two or three weeks before I actually let him in. It seems to get them all going 

[Hopewell]

Vaectomising a tup is more involved than castration so I would expect the price to be more, although £145 sounds a lot. Using a vasectomised tup will definitely help compact the lambing period and can also help to bring the lambing period forward a bit. Whether its worth the outlay may depend on how many ewes you have.

[SallyintNorth]

I have personal accidental experience of teasers, personal experience of compacting lambing without teasers, and second-hand experience of teasers to share.

First, the cautionary stuff.  Vasectomised teasers should be okay, but some teasers are 'rigs', where the remaining testicle(s) are internal, not descended.  In the latter case, be aware that the sperm in the undescended testicle may start to be viable in very very cold weather - we and a neighbour had unexpected May lambs last year arising from rig teasers working in the very cold (-15 and below) snap the December before.  (Our neighbour's teasers were intentional teasers, resting with the ewes; ours was thought by us to be a wether running with the other overwintering lambs but it turned out had one internal testicle, hence our unplanned hoggs' lambs the following May...  )

The neighbour who uses teasers intentionally uses them to bring the ewes on cycling, so that when they go to the fully-functioning tup, all should take on the first cycle, meaning pretty much all the lambs get born in a 17-day window.  The neighbour in question is just about the top commercial farmer in these parts, so I think you can be certain the technique works.  ('Top' as in big, yes; wins prizes, yes; gets top prices, yes; totally respected by every farmer for 30 miles, yes.)  Whether he raddles the teasers so he can see when all the ewes are cycling, or just knows by experience how long to leave them in, I don't know.

My own experience of compacting lambing without a teaser tup was that, like Rosemary, if we let the tups run in the field next door to the ewes for three weeks before opening the gate, we got 98% in lamb first cycle every year.  (This over three years on in excess of 500 ewes - so I would say it is statistically significant!  It was less, about 94%, one year when there was a bad autumn and everyone hereabouts had poor conception rates.)

Hope that helps. x

[Dougal]

All depends on when you intend to tup your ewes. If you are tupping peak season (october/november time) then I would the expect the ewes to be cycling every 17 days as normal so providing the classic 2 cycle lambing with just a couple of hangerons so no need to tease the ewes. If looking to tup earlier, especially much earlier, then using a treaser could help tighten up the lambing pattern.
There are other influencces as well. If the ewes don't scent a tup prior to tupping, and are tupped early, then they might not start cycling until introduced to the tup and since the first cycle is usually weak they may not conceive at the first offer so extening the lambing pattern. In this case a teaser is ideal.
The number of tups, and varility of those tups, to the ewes will also have an influence. I always try to use odd numbers of tups among the ewes (1, 3, 5 etc). The reason being that even numbers of tups (especially 2) can spend more time knocking each other off the ewes than working. With an odd number there is always a spare tup to nip in and do the job. If using two tups I try to make sure one is weaker than the other so a good strong tup with a lamb or old boy so there is less competion.
Normal practice would dictate that you should count 35 ewes to the tup. Since this includes tup lambs and old boys that means that a tup in his prime (2-4 shear) who is sound can tup many more than that if given the chance. I have used one tup to 90 ewes for the first 17 days before sending in some help. Only 6 ewes lambed in the second half of the lambing!!

I know that is a bit long winded but I hope it is of some use to you.

[Dougal]

All this teaser talk reminds me of a farmer not far from aberdeen who always worked his ewes through the handleing system before the tups were worked, whether for dosing, foot trimming etc. The only time he didn't do this was just before tupping (about 2 weeks) when he put the tups through first to check their feet and dose them. He then dosed the ewes through the same handling system after the tups. He said the scent of the tups was enough to start the cycle. might be easier for some farms than trusting the fences to hold the tups from the ewes!!

[andywalt]

All very interesting and I am enjoying this subject very much, it will help me  no end later on this year

[jaykay]

I also run the tups the other side of a wire fence from the ewes 3-4 weeks before I want to let them in and my experience is that it tends to mean tighter lambing, which I prefer 

I share Dougal's view that two tups fight rather than get on with it  

[VSS]

The cost for the operation is £145 I'm not sure if its worth the outlay

That is quite pricey - I think we paid about £45 for ours. It might be cheaper is you can take the tup to the vets premises to have it done. Whether or not it is worth the outlay depends on how important it is to you personally to have a compact lambing period.

First, the cautionary stuff.  Vasectomised teasers should be okay, but some teasers are 'rigs', where the remaining testicle(s) are internal, not descended.  In the latter case, be aware that the sperm in the undescended testicle may start to be viable in very very cold weather

In this case it is not a properly vasectomised teaser, just a rig that is being used for that job. Vasectomised rams have the tubes that carry the sperm from the testicles cut and tied off so there is no way that they can be fertile.

My own experience of compacting lambing without a teaser tup was that, like Rosemary, if we let the tups run in the field next door to the ewes for three weeks before opening the gate

This can work but you must have very good fences. Alternatively you could pen up the ewes and rams next to each other for a couple of hours every day.

A few other points that I think are important that no-one else has mentioned yet.
1: If you are going to get a ram vasectomised, you need to have it done AT LEAST eight weeks before you want to use him as a teaser - this should give enough time to ensure that he will not get anything in lamb
2: It is a really good idea to use a breed for your teaser that looks completely different to the rams you use. This means you are not likely to mistake your teaser for a fertile tup. We have welsh mountains and have used suffolks, llanwenogs, black texels, and poll dorset crosses as teaser.
3: Choose a teaser of a breed that naturally has an earlier breeding season than your own sheep. Teasing will help to get your ewes cycling and sexually active, so you need to use a ram who is already in full breeding condition. Poll dorsets and their crosses make excellent teasers as they will work all year round.
3: Timing is absolutely critical. Just chucking a teaser in for three weeks before your rams go in won't give you the best effect.
Day 1: Put the teaser in with your ewes. One should be able to manage quite a large group. We have three teasers for 160 ewes.
Day 14: Remove the teaser rams. On the same day put your fertile rams in with the ewes. Put a raddle harness on him.
Days 21 - 26: Most of your ewes should take the ram during this five day period.
Day: 31: Change the colour of the raddle crayon and start looking out for repeats. If you get a lot there might be something wrong with your tup.

This, in a nutshell is what we do with our flock and generally the vast majority of the flock lambs within ten days. Tight lambing period os very important to us as we need to be sure that most of our ewes will lamb during out 4.5 day lambing course.

[SteveHants]

You'd really hope the vet would tell you if he was a rig (if you hadn't checked his b*****ks yourself).

I use my tup as a teaser by keeping him next door to the ewes, but last year he smashed down the fence (he knows he can put his feet on the top strands of the mesh and force it to collapse), ergo I lambed in mid February. I'm thinking of getting a teaser in this year.....

[feldar]

I agree with VSS We use two teasers with our ewes one with the older ewes and one in with the shearlings, we paid £90.00 each to have them done. Vet bills here are high, but maybe that's just in the South, i don't know if geography has anything to do with it.
Our teasers are now 3 years old and still going strong. We know at Wilton sheep fair last year a certified teaser made over 200 pounds and we were quoted 300 for one of ours but we wouldn't sell him cause he is now a pet.

[PDO_Lamb]

My vet did the op in their surgery (so no visit fee) last week for less than £100. I am trying a Teaser for the first time hoping for the ewes to cycle a bit earlier

[Pasture Farm]

Many thanks for all the interest and advise

The tup i have in mind was proven as a Ram lamb last year he is a pure Lleyn fully intact, the tup i use for my meat breed is a Hampshire, he is crossed with the Lleyn Ewes.

I realise the 8 week period from Vasectomy to teaser and would not use him as a teaser this year.

There is NO WAY the Hampshire or the Lleyn would stay the other side of the fence the Hampshire would look upon it as a very small obstical and would systematically remove all fencing and lay it in a pile ready for kindling

The vet quoted me £145 and that was for me to take the tup to them and then collect.

I may try a couple of other vets for next year 

Thanx again