NFU Mutual Smallholding Insurance

Author Topic: Worms...!!!??  (Read 4851 times)

dyedinthewool

  • Joined Jul 2010
  • Orpingtons and assorted Sheep
Worms...!!!??
« on: August 01, 2011, 10:29:30 pm »
I know I should have had a worm count done, just haven't had the time to order the test kit. (one of those roundtoits - could paper a wall with them)
Anyway one of the shearlings had a dirty bum - could have been fresh grass as they had just been turned out into the aftermath of the hay field. But then found a dung that had what I can only describe as pasta coloured bits about 1/4" wide but made up of thread like pieces.  So panic'd and dosed them with Combinex. they were last done about a year ago when i aquired them.

I kept them in small paddock for a couple of days so I could pick up their dung so it wasn't being spread around the other paddocks, several of the dungs had not only these 'pasta' bits in but some of the 'threads' looked more like little 'worms' hanging on. is this what worms look like? or is this something different?

You are never to old to learn something new
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SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: Worms...!!!??
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2011, 10:41:46 pm »
Check with your supplier but I think Combinex is not effective against tapeworm.

The pasta bits probably are tapeworm segments.  The other little worms are probably roundworms which the Combinex has killed.

Generally the tapeworm causes sheep little problem.  However I think it can spread from sheep back to dogs (who probably donated the original egg that infected your sheep.)   And you can get 'tenuitius cysts' (at least that's what Welsh Country Foods veterinary department calls them) in the liver, which would mean the liver would be condemned when the sheep went to slaughter.  The abbatoirs we supply don't make any deduction for this as they don't pay for the liver and lights anyway, but it'd be a nuisance if you were having the sheep for your own freezer and wanted the liver back for yourself.  You are talking about shearlings so maybe these are breeding sheep anyway?
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cow, beef cattle, pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Dougal

  • Joined Jul 2011
  • Port O' Menteith, Stirlingshire
Re: Worms...!!!??
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2011, 09:10:37 am »
Generally at this time of the year the grass is just starting to sweeten a little so that the plants can feed the roots before the winter so that would make the sheep go a little green at the back! As for the worms, what sally from the north sad was right about the tape worms so i'd not worry about them, the combinex will do very well because it was what you had and I think it is active against liver fluke as well. If the tape worms do bother you maybe leave it 6-8 weeks and dose with a different anthilmentic to clear them out.
It's always worse for someone else, so get your moaning done before they start using up all the available symathy!

Anke

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • St Boswells, Scottish Borders
Re: Worms...!!!??
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2011, 11:23:39 am »
Panacur deals with tapeworms, but if the lamb is well then I wouldn't bother. Sheep will acquire some immunity to them.

dyedinthewool

  • Joined Jul 2010
  • Orpingtons and assorted Sheep
Re: Worms...!!!??
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2011, 10:20:15 pm »
Thanks all :wave: for the information,

I try not to dose unless really necessary, I think I've read /heard somewhere that tape worms don't harm sheep (didn't even think that that's what it could be...Duh..) I used Combinex because here in Wales it gets wet ::) ::) and more worried about fluke.  I really will get some worm test kits so I can be sure I'm not dosing needlessly.

Have I not also read somewhere that panacur kills the earth worms if used?

All a steep learning curve.....this keeping sheep.
You are never to old to learn something new

Re: Worms...!!!??
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2011, 10:47:28 pm »
How on earth can a sheep acquire immunity to a Tapeworm? - a worm that attaches to the intestine and grows and grows, taking a lot of the nutrition that the sheep needs. The tapeworm can also be picked up by humans.

I keep hearing about "immunity" to worms but I have never seen this substantiated.

If it is Tapeworm then get the correct wormer and deal with it.
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SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: Worms...!!!??
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2011, 10:51:16 pm »
You're right to be wanting keep them covered against fluke, especially if it's wet where you are.  If the summer is wet then we are now advised to dose every 6-8 weeks year round, but until the weather patterns changed in 2007 we did not have to dose for fluke from March to September as the ground would be drier and the snail that carries the fluke not around in any numbers.  Best to check with other local sheep-keepers and/or the vet on advice for your locale.

I would also get the local vet's advice on which wormers to use and when - in some areas, resistance to some of the wormers is becoming a problem; the vet will advise a regime that will suit your local conditions.
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cow, beef cattle, pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Rosemary

  • Joined Oct 2007
  • Barry, Angus, Scotland
    • The Accidental Smallholder
Re: Worms...!!!??
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2011, 08:03:35 am »
How on earth can a sheep acquire immunity to a Tapeworm? - a worm that attaches to the intestine and grows and grows, taking a lot of the nutrition that the sheep needs. The tapeworm can also be picked up by humans.

I keep hearing about "immunity" to worms but I have never seen this substantiated.

If it is Tapeworm then get the correct wormer and deal with it.

I think "immunity" is the wrong word. Adult animals often develop a tolerance of certain worms and can function perfectly well while carrying a small burden. This isn't generally the case with young animals.

Have a chat with your vet who will advise on a worming programme- he will be happy to help as they would far rather help keepers do a good job of prevention than pick up the problems when they arise. That is, at least, my experience.

feldar

  • Joined Apr 2011
  • lymington hampshire
Re: Worms...!!!??
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2011, 08:31:15 am »
Yes certain sheep do get a tolerance for worms, certain breeds are also more resistant to them as well. I think it is something we should take more care over in this country, and try to breed from less suseptable sheep ( not easy when you are mass producing), This dosing for worms at the first sight of them is what has got us into such as mess with worm resistance.

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Anke

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • St Boswells, Scottish Borders
Re: Worms...!!!??
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2011, 10:56:44 pm »
The Scops document has ONE line on tapeworms - if they would a significant problem in the UK it would have been discussed at greater length I am sure.

Agnes C Winter in her book "The sheepkeeper's veterinary handbook" actually says: ".... by the time you see the segments (in the faeces) the lambs are begining to develop their own immunity, causing the worms to be expelled." (page 122).

As far as I am aware Praziquantel is not generally available (for food producing animals), but I have not checked this with my vet (He only recommended Panacur). If it is - has anyone used it, what's the commercial name (the dog version is Drontal), and how effective is it?

Also given the wide resistance to Panacur I am not sure how effective it is anymore against tapeworms, but for example my local vet lab, who analyse my wormcount samples are not worried by tapeworm (in this case in one of my goats actually!) at all... I treated my nanny goat with the correct (goat) dose of Panacur, but tapeworm is still happily present - she is actually not bothered by it either!

If someone knows a bit more about the life cycle of a tapeworm, and how it moves from animal to animal (in the absence of dogs eating sheeps heads and then doing their business in the sheep field), danger periods etc I would love to hear about it. Just worrying a bit for my goat, as goats and sheep have different levels of immunity/tolerance to worms.


SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: Worms...!!!??
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2011, 11:49:00 pm »
As far as I am aware Praziquantel is not generally available (for food producing animals), but I have not checked this with my vet (He only recommended Panacur). If it is - has anyone used it, what's the commercial name (the dog version is Drontal), and how effective is it?

As far as I can find on NOAH, Praziquantel is found only in treatments for dogs and cats.

The preparation we used a while ago when we wanted to rid our sheep of tapeworm (partly to stop them reinfecting the dogs!) was Valbazen. 
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cow, beef cattle, pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Re: Worms...!!!??
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2011, 08:28:42 am »
an interesting article on tapeworm : http://www.sheepandgoat.com/articles/tapeworms.html
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Also www.suppliesforfarmers.co.uk for more larger farm related items

waterhouse

  • Guest
Re: Worms...!!!??
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2011, 11:46:33 pm »
SfS you are a mine of fascinating information

Re: Worms...!!!??
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2011, 08:57:48 am »
SfS you are a mine of fascinating information

Hmmm I'll take that as a compliment ....I Think....
www.suppliesforsmallholders.co.uk - Safe Secure shopping for all your livestock equipment and supplies.
Also www.suppliesforfarmers.co.uk for more larger farm related items

 

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