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Author Topic: verm x  (Read 9928 times)

HappyHippy

  • Guest
Re: verm x
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2011, 02:28:47 pm »
It's one kit for 1 sample Harry  ;)
Because all your pigs have come from the same breeder and same litter they'll all be in a similar state worm wise, so you can either test just one or do a combined sample in the pot with dung from each animal.
HTH
Karen

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: verm x
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2011, 02:40:03 pm »
it can be for one pig or a multiple of pigs one pig you fill it with the crap from only that pig     multiple pigs you fill it with a bit from every pig
the worm resistance bit is slightly different for pigs         weaner's or fatteners are not going to be kept that long   well should not
sows and boars should be rotated around paddocks and they crap in the same part all the time a well feed pig should not root where it craps but they are pigs and can not read so anything is possible
you are rely stuck betwean a rock and a hard place with this one   buy the kit and find out you don't need to worm OR still do     do not test and dose or i
nject for worms when it is not necessary or you are dosing/injecting across the worm possibility's and therefore killing the dung Beatles :farmer:
if the mother had worms these can be passed on to the piglets via her milk       and i think also passed on when still in the womb   if the mother is injected more than 9/10 days before birth of the piglets the immunity will be passed on to them :farmer:
« Last Edit: August 01, 2011, 02:45:54 pm by robert waddell »

Re: verm x
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2011, 03:02:07 pm »
in a post WHATS THE BEST WORMER a link is shown to a worm count kit.... £9.99 isnt that for 1 kit for 1 pig?

If you want a 100% accurate EPG count for an animal then that is correct.

However it is possible to mix samples in one pot and therefore gain an average EPG count.

Thanks
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Re: verm x
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2011, 03:07:02 pm »
Quote from SfS
"plus when you buy your weaners you cannot be 100% certain that the breeder / supplier has wormed them correctly (if at all??)."
If you buy from a reputable breeder they should tell you when, and with what, they wormed the weaners. We worm all ours with Ivomectin at 8-9 weeks. Perhaps I shouldn't bother! If you assume the breeder HASN'T wormed the weaners, and worm them yourself, but they have actually been wormed, isn't that likely to cause problems with resistance?

Its Under-dosing that increases resistance + keeping on the same land after worming, as the animal re-ingests worms or eggs not killed by the wormer.

So regardless of how reputable the breeder is then (in my view) a "blanket" worming programme is not the correct choice unless backed up by regular worm counts to determine the effectiveness of the programme.
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Tiva Diva

  • Joined Mar 2011
  • Scottish Borders
    • Thornielee Cottage
Re: verm x
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2011, 05:02:15 pm »
We do regular worm counts (negligible) and rotate our pigs through the paddocks. The main reason we worm all our weaners is because that's what most buyers want! I do agree that worm counts are the way to go: we don't do each pig but each pen, because if one pig in a group has worms they all will.
I agree with Robert and Mandy: we bought in a batch of weaners last year to meet unexpected increased demand for meat. Not only had they not been wormed effectively but one of the buggers turned out to have chronic erysipelas! They grew very slowly compared to ours and were definitely a false economy. With hindsight I should have visited the farm before I agreed to buy them!

harry

  • Joined Mar 2009
Re: verm x
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2011, 05:38:53 pm »
someone i know used horse worm powder in feed..... apparently its very strong and you cant overdose ?????????????????? not even at 1000 times dose ?????? piglets are 7 weeks old and on previously pig free ground and will be killed at 11 months aprox
« Last Edit: August 01, 2011, 05:40:24 pm by harry »

janeislay

  • Joined Sep 2010
  • Isle of Islay
    • Ellister Islay Highland Ponies
Re: verm x
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2011, 07:02:50 pm »
Just to put an oar in, wouldn't it be better to eat a piggy that had been wormed with a natural herbal wormer than one that had been wormed with ivermectin based wormer ?  I know they give withdrawal time, but who knows what minute amount of residue is actually harmful ?

I read recently that with a new method of analysis, they'd found 14 chemicals in milk (from the pasteurised milk we drink) that had gathered from various sources unbeknown to the producer.  I wonder how some of these chemicals react to each other.

I'd stick to natural wormers whenever possible - by cross-grazing, changing pastures, use of herbs etc., which doesn't clear out worms entirely, (that only makes way for a huge influx of fresh worms) but greatly reduces them.

Just my thoughts  ;D 

Re: verm x
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2011, 09:15:08 pm »
Quote
if the mother had worms these can be passed on to the piglets via her milk       and i think also passed on when still in the womb   if the mother is injected more than 9/10 days before birth of the piglets the immunity will be passed on to them

There is no immunity to worms.
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robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: verm x
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2011, 09:32:49 pm »
immunity is the wrong word      if there are worm eggs or whatever the worms develop from    when the mother is injected this is passed onto the piglets  :farmer:

harry

  • Joined Mar 2009
Re: verm x
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2011, 08:35:02 pm »
any natural wormer would be great and easy, but does it work??????????... can i initally look for them myself can they be seen  or do i need a magnifying glass, and what colour are they.

HappyHippy

  • Guest
Re: verm x
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2011, 09:18:37 pm »
Harry  ::) :D you'll need a microscope and some fluid with which to 'wash' the sample (it's got to be special stuff to suspend the eggs, water won't do) and then you've got to correctly identify which parasites are present and in what numbers.
Trust me - pay your tenner and buy the test  ;) These guys are experts at identifiying what types and numbers are present, then you can decide on the right course of action.
Obviously, you don't need to worm them at all - they're your pigs and it's up to you what level of care you want to give them  :-\ though the £15 it'll cost will be saved in the price of extra food they consume in order to get to killing weight.
Karen

Re: verm x
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2011, 09:20:50 pm »
You may see some - but chances are you wont.

We have seen results from people who swear their animals wont have worms or are on virgin land - only to find  a very high EPG (Eggs per gramme) reading.

It is the eggs that the pig normally passes rather than wriggling worms.

A worm count for pigs will identify eggs for the following worms (if present)

Trichuris suis
Stronyloides
Metastrongylus elongatus
physocephalus sexalatus
Macracanthorhynchus hirudinaceus
Ascaris suum
Globocephalus urosubulatus
Hyostrongylus rubidus
Hyostrongylus rubidus
Oesophagostomum dentatum
Oesophagostomum dentatum
Stephanurus dentatus
Trichinella spiralis

Will also check for Liver Fluke if you specify that you would like this checking.

Thanks
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HappyHippy

  • Guest
Re: verm x
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2011, 09:25:11 pm »
 ;D ;D ;D
See, I can't even say half of those, let alone identify them !
Thank god for the experts, eh Gareth ?  ;)
Karen  :wave:

Re: verm x
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2011, 09:28:19 pm »
Thats who we rely on - experts in the field -  we just spread the word.........
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lachlanandmarcus

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: verm x
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2011, 09:58:21 pm »
Just to put an oar in, wouldn't it be better to eat a piggy that had been wormed with a natural herbal wormer than one that had been wormed with ivermectin based wormer ?  I know they give withdrawal time, but who knows what minute amount of residue is actually harmful ?

I read recently that with a new method of analysis, they'd found 14 chemicals in milk (from the pasteurised milk we drink) that had gathered from various sources unbeknown to the producer.  I wonder how some of these chemicals react to each other.

I'd stick to natural wormers whenever possible - by cross-grazing, changing pastures, use of herbs etc., which doesn't clear out worms entirely, (that only makes way for a huge influx of fresh worms) but greatly reduces them.

Just my thoughts  ;D 

Only if the natural wormers worked to clear already present worms; and the producers could not prove that they did. The other things (cross grazing, low stocking rates, rotation to fresh pasture, access to plants other than plain ryegrass are all things which should ideally be done anyway, to minimise the chance of worms. But none of them will resolve worms once there.

Worm counts then tell whether there is a negligible, low or high burden. Clearing out (which as you say would be counter productive) should not happen as the advice with worm tests is  that negligible or low count - dont worm, medium count - worm if you think necessary, high count - you should worm.

If there is a proven heavy worm burden then all the cross grazing and herbs and Verm-x in the world will not address it; only a wormer will do that. If not using a worm when there is a heavy burden the rest of the flock are likely to become worm-ridden too and fail to thrive.

Personally using the sort of techniques we are all agreeing on for prevention, I have not had to worm my sheep to date in 3 years, I would not want to eat meat that has been recently treated with any wormer or chemical and some withdrawal periods seem too short to me! But with appropriate timing of months rather than days or weeks prior to slaughter I suspect we are running greater risks from factors in the environment we havent even got a handle on yet - eg nanoparticles, nictotinoids on bees etc, and there is also an animal welfare aspect of the duty to ensure that we take appropriate action to avoid animals suffering. So if I needed to worm, I would have no hesitation, in the interests of the animals.

 

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