[SallyintNorth]

Not mine but a friends.  They do CaniX and sometimes the dog gets so excited and jumpy he bites her really quite hard.  She's tried a few things but has had only limited success in stopping him.

Anyone got any ideas?

[jaykay]

Collies are so smart and keen to please, this should be fixable.

The thing is, she has to be very definite about her action, then she'll only have to do it once or twice.

When he next bites (at all), she needs to forcibly lie him flat down on the floor, on his side, holding his head to the floor, and in a big, loud, deep voice, say 'no'. The dog will be surprised and shocked. Then after a minute, she lets him up and makes her voice deliberately high and friendly and fusses him.

Repeat as needed. Worked very well with one of ours who was biting the others, in excitement/obsessive collie behaviour.

It sounds as though it's happening cos the dog is getting beyond excited - so a good long run before they begin, to run some of the nervous energy off should make it less likely.

[WaltDisneyWorld]

Why not try teaching a really reliable stop command. I personally would start this with a wigglying a toy to get the dog excited then raising my hand with toy getting the dog to stop and sit, giving the command stop then throwing the toy for it to play as its reward. Being a collie it would probably catch on to this game pretty quickly, therefore once reliable it is very useful to use in order to stop unwanted behaviour and give an opportunity to redirect its actions.

I personally do not like any physical reprimand on a dog and with patience, positive reward training and consistancy alot can be achieved.

[jaykay]

I don't like dogs being hit. Absolutely not. But the point about lying a dog down is that it reinforces dominance - and a dog who is biting its owner is also not sufficiently conscious of the unassailability of the pack leader. Hubby, who has trained dogs professionally for 30 years, is the one who has developed this technique for serious issues.

[ellisr]

I do the dominance reprimand with my collie who sometimes forgets when excited, I have also found that a water botlle that I can squirt sometimes useful to bring there attention back when over excited as collies just seem to wind themselves into a frenzy if not corrected very quickly and how obsessed they can become over toys or even other animals they live with

[doganjo]

I don't like dogs being hit. Absolutely not. But the point about lying a dog down is that it reinforces dominance - and a dog who is biting its owner is also not sufficiently conscious of the unassailability of the pack leader. Hubby, who has trained dogs professionally for 30 years, is the one who has developed this technique for serious issues.

Thisn sim exactly what I'd have advsied too.  My Brittanys are a working breed too and they can get over excited at times, doing much the same nipping.  I have to remind them from time to time by doing this.

[SallyintNorth]

This is great stuff, folks - thanks very much.  I've passed on your ideas - I'll report back when I hear if any of it worked!

[kingnigel]

if the dog is doing this through excitement then is it going to understand why he is suddenly being dominated, its not a method i have had to use although i will show my dominance if my dogs show aggression towards each other or towards me (fortunately this doesnt happen),
i would train the dog in much the same way as i would an over playful puppy, i would make a sound that represented the pain i was feeling and stop playing for a few minutes, imo the dog hasnt learned the social boundaries as a puppy, this usually happens when the dog is removed from his litter mates too soon but other things can cause it.

kn

ps i would be interested to now how the dogs owner gets this sorted, which ever method they choose to try
thanks

[Sandy]

kingnigel, thats more or less what I would do, we have a yellow lab that gets very excited but she does not bite, I just tell her to calm down and ignor her, she is still twitchy and runs around but she will not jump up or bite, my big male gets a bit over excited too but again,  never bites. The Yellow and the Black male however would probaly jump up if some one encourages them, the best way I think is to stop thier interaction with you, turn around and do something else until they get the message. I also found making that noise like a yelp is sucsessful.

[doganjo]

What this collie is doing is beyond the bite inhibition that you teach a puppy.  It needs firmer handling.  Of course the squealing may help but submitting the dog is a far better method and it does not hurt the dog at all.  However, timing is crucial, it MUST be done immediately.

[jaykay]

I think people not being prepared to be firm with dogs is how you get badly behaved ones. That's both not fun but also, given that they're pack carnivores, rather than animated teddy bears, not safe.

Dogs are physical creatures and understand physical responses. You don't have to be cruel or hurt them, of course not. But you have to be properly in charge and not back off being the pack leader, for their happiness and safety as well as everyone else's.

Can you imagine an actual wolf pack leader not taking decisive action if one of their subordinates bit them! Our GSD, Brogan, used to do just what we've advocated with the collie, with our 'upstart' young collie, Skye. Brogan didn't bite him, he used to pin him to the ground with his huge forelegs and just hold him there. Skye got the message  

[kingnigel]

Can you imagine an actual wolf pack leader not taking decisive action if one of their subordinates bit them! Our GSD, Brogan, used to do just what we've advocated with the collie, with our 'upstart' young collie, Skye. Brogan didn't bite him, he used to pin him to the ground with his huge forelegs and just hold him there. Skye got the message  

as the dog in question  (according to the description) is not trying to show dominance the problem of an over excited wolf not knowing the boundaries would never arise, as any wolf in a pack would have fully learned how to interact with its siblings. so if a subordinate wolf tries to raise its game then yes it would be put in its place very quickly. but thats because its trying to become dominant.
the dog in question is not trying to dominate, it just has not learned the boundaries. dogs in a group learn the boundaries  when they play as pups, as they play you will hear them squeal and play stops momentarily, because the pup that did the biting wants to play it learns not to go so far the next time so play continues.

i am all for being firm with your dogs, i have 10 that live together so they have to know their place, but seeing it from the dogs point of view also helps.

i should also point out that i dont have collies, i have sibes who are also very excitable.
kn

[SallyintNorth]

Well, I passed on your ideas.  The dominance thing sounds good, she says, but the only time he does this is actually during a race and she thinks she would be disqualified if she threw him to the ground and lay on top of him!  (Don't know why she's so worried about that - this same friend got me thrown out of an organised walk at Exmoor Walking Festival six years ago...)

[jaykay]

 

[doganjo]

Well, I passed on your ideas.  The dominance thing sounds good, she says, but the only time he does this is actually during a race and she thinks she would be disqualified if she threw him to the ground and lay on top of him!  (Don't know why she's so worried about that - this same friend got me thrown out of an organised walk at Exmoor Walking Festival six years ago...)

In case anyone doesn't know what CaniX is - it's as it says on the tin    Cross country running with your dog attached to you on a harness - http://cani-cross.co.uk/

I wonder if a longer line might help?  The dog maybe feels restricted?