[Eastling]

It's usually calculated on weight, includes anaesthetic, premed antib's analgesic, surgery and post op care.

[princesspiggy]

our gsd was spayed at 5yr with no problems. had bladder incontinance for about a year but no problems for 2 years now.

[doganjo]

Once a bitch is past the first season there usually aren't problems, older bitches sometimes have incontinence for a while till the hormones settle down, and sometimes coats can go a bit fluffy, but that is easily remedied with correct grooming.  Obesity can be a problem, but it is mostly attributed to owners overfeeding to compensate for doing such a terrible thing to their dog!     My routine is to spay my girls at around 7 years, and leave my boys entire. I have to request permission to show if they are neutered, and just try showing a neutered male!!!  You get nowhere!  A neutered female is of course indetectable.

[robert waddell]

doganjo  do they not bother with a breeding record for the bitches seems a bit daft to have a perfect bitch and not breed     

[doganjo]

Not quite sure what you mean Robert, but any registered bitch, whether or not she has pups that are also registered, is on the KC database.  If a bitch is spayed and is normally shown then you have to request a 'permission to show'.  But either way, you can't see whether a bitch has been spayed or not, whereas it is obvious if a dog has been castrated.  So not many castrated males are shown even though it is allowed, and they can have 'permission to show' too.  Not all good dogs and bitches are bred from.    If they were the world would be overrun with dogs.  It's not like pigs and sheep where you can breed and eat the progeny.   Many mediocre dogs are also bred from.  Does that make sense, and does it answer your question?

[robert waddell]

maybe or obviously in the dog world things are different
the dog shows are supposed to place the best dogs first are they not
what is the point of breeding to perfection and stopping that line then breeding from mediocre lines
all breeders should strive for perfection even in canaries

[jaykay]

Our vets advised me to let ours have their first season, as they wouldn't be fully grown otherwise. They said specifically the vulva area and in immature, prematurely spayed animals, there was sometimes a involuted
 crease which collected urine and became sore

The view about dogs was let them get to at least 9 months but do them before 18 months otherwise the sometimes antisocial behavioural characteristics of a mature adult males (dogs that is  ) are starting to be inbuilt and reducing testosterone then wouldn't change anything.

Our vets have been around the block a few times - I think they're good news  and are training their youngest partners in similarly sane ways 

[cuckoo]

My vets change their rates due to the size of dog i.e after 15kg its more.  It cost me about £160 to get one of my Irish Terriers spayed a couple of years ago - she was just under 15kg

[doganjo]

maybe or obviously in the dog world things are different
the dog shows are supposed to place the best dogs first are they not
what is the point of breeding to perfection and stopping that line then breeding from mediocre lines
all breeders should strive for perfection even in canaries

I don't think you quite understand, Robert.  Dog showing is not just for breeders, it is a hobby for an awful lot of people who will never breed.  It is not the same as showing an animal that will taste good.
Yes, we Judges are supposed to Judge to the Breed Standard, and generally speaking, on the whole the best dogs do win, but as I said above they may not ever be bred from.  Also, although I have trained in France (I own a French Breed), and passed the Canine Judging Diploma, and our Breed Seminar exam, all three with Distinction, not everyone has.  There are certainly more stringent criteria for judging than there were but there are still a lot of judges around that don't know one end of a dog from another, so to speak.  Then again a breed standard is a set of words, not pictures, and as such is open to interpretation.  What I might see as a good Brittany, someone else might not like it's head, or tailset, or length of loin, or slope of pastern, or slope of croup - the sum of the parts is what I look for, not an excelling in one thing, although I do like heads to be in the correct proportion, the specific movement of our breed to be correct, oh, and nice bums 

[doganjo]

Our vets advised me to let ours have their first season, as they wouldn't be fully grown otherwise. They said specifically the vulva area and in immature, prematurely spayed animals, there was sometimes a involuted
 crease which collected urine and became sore Absolutely right!

The view about dogs was let them get to at least 9 months but do them before 18 months otherwise the sometimes antisocial behavioural characteristics of a mature adult males (dogs that is  ) are starting to be inbuilt and reducing testosterone then wouldn't change anything.

Our vets have been around the block a few times - I think they're good news  and are training their youngest partners in similarly sane ways 

Excellent advice, exactly what I have been saying.

[princesspiggy]

maybe or obviously in the dog world things are different
the dog shows are supposed to place the best dogs first are they not
what is the point of breeding to perfection and stopping that line then breeding from mediocre lines
all breeders should strive for perfection even in canaries

i agree with that, any breeders should aim for the breed standard, then test it out in the ring. its not just about eating them either, we showed a filly and were told by the judge we really should breed with her cos she was so good.
on the otherhand, many rabbit breeders will tell u that the champion rabbits dont always produce champions in their offspring, winners are more likely to come from the siblings' litters of that rabbit.

is there any license required before u can breed reg pups? ie like some breeds of pony stallions need a license? i dont mean kc reg.

[doganjo]

maybe or obviously in the dog world things are different
the dog shows are supposed to place the best dogs first are they not
what is the point of breeding to perfection and stopping that line then breeding from mediocre lines
all breeders should strive for perfection even in canaries

i agree with that, any breeders should aim for the breed standard, then test it out in the ring. its not just about eating them either, we showed a filly and were told by the judge we really should breed with her cos she was so good. I would NEVER say that to anyone without looking at the pedigree and advising a lined stud dog
on the otherhand, many rabbit breeders will tell u that the champion rabbits dont always produce champions in their offspring, winners are more likely to come from the siblings' litters of that rabbit. Why?

is there any license required before u can breed reg pups? ie like some breeds of pony stallions need a license? i dont mean kc reg.

Can I just repeat myself!  Dog showing is a hobby, it is NOT purely for breeders.  I show at a number of Open shows in Scotland - I rarely have orders for puppies up here, my breed doesn't have show ring appeal. I also show at Championship shows in England and Wales and receive enquiries from those.  But I am not a big breeder.  I only breed occasionally when I want a pup of my own or if I have enough enquiries for a whole litter.  The next mating will probably be the last - I only have one bitch I can breed from now and she is 7 now, so can't have a litter registered after next May.

Anyone can breed dogs, and anyone can register them with the Kennel Club, or not as they so wish.  There is an Accredited Breeder Scheme which the KC is trying to promote - there are criteria which must be fulfilled.  It is aimed at improving dog breeding. In my opinion it is high time there was legislation in place so that dog breeding was controlled.

[robert waddell]

any animal or bird that is shown is a hobby         but the breeders like to tell that there particular line is from muttly that won crufts in nineteen canteen   or whatever        now come on annie you are swithering betwean two dogs one has crufts winners on both parentage    the other has diddly squat worth the mentioning         which one are you going for 

[Sandy]

And there was me thinking I had found another great excuse for being overweight........Having been 'spayed' a few years ago myself!!           

Me too  , what do vets know anyway 

[doganjo]

any animal or bird that is shown is a hobby         but the breeders like to tell that there particular line is from muttly that won crufts in nineteen canteen   or whatever        now come on annie you are swithering betwean two dogs one has crufts winners on both parentage    the other has diddly squat worth the mentioning         which one are you going for 

The one that is line bred to my bitch, obviously - simples.  Or don't you do line breeding in pigs?