[Snapper]

Our Parson Russell Terrier had her third (and last) litter in March, she's just turned 6 years old and we've been advised to have her spayed as it would save health problems later on.  PRT's live for around 15- 17 years so I guess it'll also save the probs of keeping her away from her 'boy-friend'!

Anyway how long should we leave her after the puppies were born  before the op? Vet suggested 3- 4 months. Also has anyone had any experience of bitches being spayed when they are older, will she be ok?

 Next questions
 We've kept one of the pups and  are now wondering should we have the Dog 'done' as well so he can't get to his daughter. He's a lovely boy, but does wander a bit, would the 'snip' solve this prob as well?

[doganjo]

Bitches should be spayed mid way between seasons, so 3 to 4 months after having pups is possibly a little late, but should be OK.  The reason is that their hormones are at their lowest then and it minimises the risk of phantom pregnancies after spaying.  I would agree that it is wise to spay a bitch if you won't be breeding from her.  Ideally I would spay my bitches at around 6/7 but for various reasons Freckles was 9 and had health problems meaning it had to be done almost as an emergency.  I haven't yet decvided whether to have oen alst litter from Belle who is now 7 but I will have to make that decision soon.  It is pretty awkward having an entire dog and bitch in the same house.  I'm fortunate that I can kennel some of mine and haev different exercise areas,  but they still know and make an enormous noise on the crucial 3 days!

[geebee]

I've been away so only just seen this thread. The main reason bitches are best spayed midway between seasons is because wen in or near a season the blod supply to the uterus is increased and there is more chance of haemorrrhage during the surgery. Also the uterus becomes 'friable' so can tear more easily during the surgery. When vet nursing I advised owners to ave them spayed about 2 months after a season, as you can never be sure when they are going to come into season next so the longer you leave it the more chance she may be near to another season. I agree with Doganjo that 3-4 months is a bit late, tho' I think you'll find a bitch which is spayed can't have false pregnancies. As your vet is the one doing the op you should take his/her advice but I would aim for 3 months rather than 4. From my experience I would say that so long as she is fit & healthy (your vet will give her a pre-op check) spaying at 6-7 years wil not cause any problems and shouldn't change her temperament. She may tend to put on weight, but that's the same for young bitches who have been spayed. Far better to have her done than risk her getting a pyometra later. By the time a bitch is showing symptoms. of having a pometra she is already a sick dog and therefore a much greater surgical risk

[Eastling]

I agree with doganjo and geebee a "closed" pyo is very dangerous in bitches as there are not the obvious signs of an "open" pyo. usually a blood stained pus. I would also get the male dog castrated, this prevents testicular cancer and problems with the prostate in later life.

The thinking now is to spay before the bitch has a first season, this reduces the possibilities of unwanted pregnancies, mammary tumours and pyos

[doganjo]

I agree with doganjo and geebee a "closed" pyo is very dangerous in bitches as there are not the obvious signs of an "open" pyo. usually a blood stained pus. I would also get the male dog castrated, this prevents testicular cancer and problems with the prostate in later life.

The thinking now is to spay before the bitch has a first season, this reduces the possibilities of unwanted pregnancies, mammary tumours and pyos

Sorry, but this in my opinion really is 'not on'  This is one of these 'encyclicals' from the BVA.  If you spay or castrate an animal before it has reached maturity it's growth hormones are restricted and it will not reach it's potential size, or mental maturity.  You must wait until they are a year old, and in the case of bitchse have had their first season.

[Snapper]

Thanks all, I'll go with the Vet's  3/4 months. She had the pups on 13th March so we're going to try to arrange pretty soon for the spaying.

After her last litters it was around 8 months before she came in season again, so I think it should be okay. She isn't a big eater, her 'fighting weight' is around 7 kilos and it's  reasonably easy to spot if she does put on weight. Last time was when I bought a huge bag of 'working dog food' it was 23% protein and they all put on weight.

 I'm not too bothered about weight gain  after spaying as our Springer (who was spayed as a youngster) is as fit/trim as any other Spaniel I've come across. In fact her litter sister who hasn't been spayed is around twice her size, but that's another issue.

 

[Rosemary]

WE've got two collies aged 11 years - both were spayed a few months after their first season. Neither of them are fat. Spaying is just the excuse used for folk's fat dogs.

[skidley]

I'm sure she will do fine being speyed, there is a risk with any anaesthetic but as she is fit and well she will be better off being speyed now than having to be speyed when already sick if she develops a pyo. As long as her milk has dried up well I would agree 3/4 months post parturition. I have 3 bitches who are all now speyed both the collie and GWP before their first season, the spinone more recently at 8. She had 3 GA's over the course of 3 months as she fractured her leg, so had to have it plated, then re operated on then she was speyed and she did fine.
At work we advised speying before the first season as the benefits of reducing the risk of mammary tumours in later life is reduced with each season a bitch has. I'm confident the mental maturity of the German hasn't been affected by being speyed before her first season, she would have been a crazy 6ft gate jumping idiot of a dog either way! The breeder said she would calm down by the time she was 3.......she's 6 and 1/2 and we're still waiting!
If you wait until a dog is over a year old before neutering the behavioural benefits like reducing the chance of wandering/humping/aggresion are not always as good. I would have the boy neutered if he was mine but as he is already aware of how it all works you may not find it has much effect on his wandering but he won't be able to get his daughter

[skidley]

WE've got two collies aged 11 years - both were spayed a few months after their first season. Neither of them are fat. Spaying is just the excuse used for folk's fat dogs.

Absolutley!

[Eastling]

Doganjo sorry if I have offended you. But I was just passing on info that vets currently give to clients. The vets follow the guidelines set by RCVS I have seen animals that have been spayed at 6 months plus grow and develop without problems, But the clients are given the information for and against spaying and the ages to do so and then make an informed decision. Everyone is entitle to their opinion.

[doganjo]

Doganjo sorry if I have offended you. But I was just passing on info that vets currently give to clients. The vets follow the guidelines set by RCVS I have seen animals that have been spayed at 6 months plus grow and develop without problems, But the clients are given the information for and against spaying and the ages to do so and then make an informed decision. Everyone is entitle to their opinion.

No offence taken.  I have 50 years of owning, breeding, showing, judging and working both dogs and bitches - what do I know? A young ffresh out of college vet looking for his next payload is bound to know what is good for a baby - dogs are babies till they are a couple of years old!  As you say we are all entitled to our opinion.  Some have experience to back that, others haven't.
Spaying AFTER the first season is fine.  What I said was it was not good to do it before.  There is very little risk of cancers before one year of age. And yes, I agree, some people will blame neutering for their dog's obesity, but some bitches (and humans  ) can get fat on air!

[JulieS]

And there was me thinking I had found another great excuse for being overweight........Having been 'spayed' a few years ago myself!!   

[skidley]

 A young ffresh out of college vet looking for his next payload is bound to know what is good for a baby -[/quote]

It would make no odds to a new grad vet's payload, its the practice partner's with all that experience whose income would be boosted.

You learn a lot of sweeping generalisations about dog breeders working in veterinary practice too!

[SallyintNorth]

         WeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE



That's what I do to distract dogs when they're thinking about shaping up for a scrap.  

[Snapper]

Just an update phoned the Vet and got her booked in for beginning of July, it's going to cost £166.69 , wonder how they work out the price?