[sabrina]

Already on some of the Shetland Pony sites new born colt foals are being offered for sale at weaning. why did breeders put their mares in foal knowing they cannot keep the colts when the market is in such a bad state that even top ponies are struggling to sell. it breaks my heart I can tell you. We have three colts and three geldings running on at the moment and if I could we try and buy some more colts to give them a chance but even I have to be sensible as the cost of hay and fed is getting stupid. Every new born life should be a joy not thought as o my god another colt. giving your mares time off from breeding may not make you any money but lets face it, you should not be doing this if money is the only thing that matters. I get so angry, every foal I bred stayed with me unless I knew it was going to a good home AND if for some reason the new owner could not keep the pony then I took them back as their welfare always comes first with me. That's what good breeding is about, from the day you choose to put a mare in foal there should always be a long term plan.

[SallyintNorth]

I do agree, sabrina.  I have a very well-bred and (to my eyes) very beautiful Fell mare.  I had planned to get a foal from her this year but due to changing circumstances decided in the end I had better not - we already have 2 Fells & 2 Dales between us and I always feel that I wish I had more time to spend with them.  It was not an easy decision, as she will be 7 this year and everyone has told me to breed as early as possible as it gets harder as they get older.  So she maybe will never now have a foal.  But I didn't want to be looking at another pony that I think should be getting more exercise, and I certainly didn't want to be producing a foal just to sell when even 'proper' Fell breeders cannot always find a good home for all their foals.

[NLL]

I am a breeder.
we have six foals due this year, three are already booked to leave us at weaning.
we pride ourselves in breeding happy,sociable,quality ponies.they are well fed,used to the farrier,load,tie up etc.
who bred your ponies.
where do you expect ponies to appear from.
all our foals are planned, i dislike indiscriminate breeding ,like the dartmoor hill ponies,i have bought 3 ponies back in the past as we care about the ponies we have bred.
out of interest what is the breeding of your ponies.

[princesspiggy]

wev bought a fair few colts at weaning from reputable breeders, and they have turned out to be real crackers, i never thought for a minute they were just surplus to requirements. thats not what breeding ponies is about.
good breeders will be picky about where their foals end up as they are a walking advert for their stud for the next 20 years. the right age to sell a pony depends on the facilites and abilities at the stud farm. wev had colts that couldnt be gelded until they were 2 as they hadnt dropped enough. juggling young colts with fillies and stallions isnt easy.
established studs arent so discriminative about colts as they cant realistically keep all the fillies either unless they change stallions regularly and grow every year in size. personally i think geldings are better alrounders for novice riders and are worth just as much when trained properly. colt at weaning may be cheaper but our gelding vet fees are £175-200 here.
definitely every pony should have a long term plan, but that may not the same as their new owner wants. uv got to use your judgement as your ponies happiess is in your hands when selling on.

[sabrina]

If you are asking me NLL the breeding of my ponies, 3 are my own when I had my stud. Wells, Abbotsbury Lines. 2 I bought from Shetland a couple of years ago Hollydell Royal Command I gelded last year, Shoormal Vanner is still entire. Horninglow Little Salkeld is my first foals first foal and he came to us last October I was over £400 for gelding two ponies last year and they will be broken to ride and drive when the time comes to give them a chance of a decent working life. All my ponies are fed all year round and handled daily. Not all ponies are lucky to be well cared for and the rescue places are bursting at the seams. People just do not have the money. I have been working with horses and ponies for over 45 years now and in that time seen lots of changes in what is popular. I can't see past cobs myself. I know one breeder who had over 50 foals in the past with no plan of what was going to happen. You are lucky if you have found good caring homes for 6 foals before they are born but people lose jobs ,get ill etc and there is nothing certain in this world anymore.

[NLL]

no I was asking sallyinthenorth the breeding of her ponies.
i,m sure you look after yours and i wasnt suggesting otherwise.
its very easy to slam breeders but some of us breed responsibly and worry about the future of the ponies we bring into the world.I know where all the ponies i,ve bred are and have made some very good friends.if no-one bred then there would be no ponies for people to buy,what happens to the person who wants a gelding,to love and care for with no intention of breeding anything.its a hard fact of breeding that some have to sell.We usually retain two foals each year which is why we have about 40 ponies here.

[SallyintNorth]

Oh, sorry NLL, didn't realise you meant me!

The Fell mare is a Townend (and yes I bought her from the Wilsons), her pal is a Linnel gelding.  One Dales is a half-sister to your Peggy Macdonald (we bought her off Margaret's fell at weaning), the other is homebred from a Strickland mare.

I expect we'll have seen each other at DPS events - I'll come and say hi at the next!  I don't suppose you go to the Cumbria Fell & Dales?  It's my favourite, that and the Linnel Performance Trials.  (Where I still spectate and make resolutions about next year...)

[NLL]

i think one daughter is going to cumbria dales and fell show whilst the other daughter is heading to nps area4.
its the breed show this saturday where we are thinking of taking 4 entires and 3 fillies[ oh god]I am waiting for 2 mares to pop so if they havent I wont be able to go.Do say hello if you come across us.

[divanp75]

at the Fell Pony Society AGM in april it was said that there was a drop in stallion service slips for the second year running, so it is expected that there will be a drop in registered Fell foals this year compared to the previous two years.

Think this shows that at least Fell breeders are thinking about the future of the pony/horse marts.  But as a rare breed what to do?

I am due two foals this year.  I just lost a four year old gelding to Grasssickness.  I had kept him, gelded him, backed him with the hope of him giving someone a great pony.  His loss has freed up space so that non of the foals have to be sold on but can grow on at home.  But what to do this year ? is anyones guess.  

[ellied]

I have been a breeder for over 20 years and the last two seasons haven't bred any foals because I could see the market slowing up.  I have 2 mares in with the stallion this year because I don't have enough visiting mares to keep him entertained and he isn't happy alone, nor are they without each other for (female) company.  As always I will keep foals until sold to homes I believe will be right for them.  In some cases that is for life, in others it is 8 months and every thing in between.

Advertising foals for sale at weaning shortly after birth is however normal practice so I'm not sure that this is a sign of bad breeders - it is common in all animal breeding to retain only enough to restock and to sell excess to new homes, male or female, but it is rarer to retain males when you have an entire breeding male who is their sire..  The sooner you advertise, the sooner you might get a booking from the right kind of person who is planning ahead with bloodlines, comparing stock etc rather than some last minute purchase made on impulse.

I'm not sure the poster will agree with me but I stand by my practice - I still have the first two foals I ever bred, now in their teens and semi retired, and a selection from 2-9 which are for sale when and if good buyers come along.  I don't give away, dump, hard sell, blag or lie, I wait - and it's hard now I've no income and only 1/3 of my previous grazing to accommodate them but that is the responsibility I take for bringing youngstock into the world in a species not destined for being eaten.

[rbarlo32]

Hollydell and Shoormal are both really good breeders and would love a pony from both studs if I had the room.  Shoormal stud is basically next door to us.  I have met Shoormal Vanner's mum a full brother Shoormal Vire and his full sister from last year thay are all lovely ponies and June is a lovely person with brillant ponies.

I personally think breeding ponies is fine as long as it for quallity and not quantity as if nobady breeds them how can the breed be improved upon?
That is just my opinion though.

[sabrina]

June and I have been friends for a few years now, I put my name down for vanner 5 years before he was born. Like me ponies come first with her but not all breeders take this point of few and you only have to go to the October sales to see colt foals that no one wants. I have never understood this attitude after all you have to keep a filly 3 years before breeding from her. A good colt gelded and brought on to be a ridden pony will often make decent money and there is a market for them. Having one of your breeding out under saddle is a great advert for the ponies your stud is producing.  I know not everyone has the space but this should be taken into account before putting the mare to the stallion in the first place. A life is a life, the mare carries her foal and should have the joy of looking after it until weaning yet I hear that some studs are shooting colts at birth. This fills me with horror.

[Juno]

please read the link http://www.saddlesoap.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=67489.90;topicseen

I am a welsh mountain pony breeder, sometimes i feel like saying that is admitting to guilt  especially when WMP can be bought for as little as a guinea 

I adore my ponies and everything i breed, i do not give animals away they are all bred with careful thought and care to produce someting that will be of breed standard, sound in every way, with expectional temprement and have close to perfect conformation enabeling them to go on and be fantastic at any job they tasked with.

Some people do see the ££££ signs and unfortunately until you can control what is bred, anybody can buy a mare and a stallion produce anything with sometimes devestating results for the pony and call themselves a breeder

Sorry rant over (for now anyway)

[missmeerkat]

I think the secret is quality not quantity ... licensing does help and chipping stops animals being dumped ..
some rescue centres help but some  FOLK think that when they get bored a rescue is the way out or a cheap place to get a horse ...
very worrying the whole horse future

we live in france and have to very careful to not sell for less than meat price as that is the last place you want them to go to .. but sadly many do .. proffesionals buy them cheap and sell to meat trade awfull ..

[Roxy]

I have Dales and Fell ponies - my dream has always been to breed from my mares. As  NLL knows, we have tried numerous times to get our older Dales mare in foal without success.  NLL kindly offered the services of her beautiful stallion, and was very helpful trying to get us our much desired foal.  Unfortunately, there were problems with the mare, and we are unable to breed from her.

I know NLL and although she has a lot of ponies (all very well cared for) and numerous stallions, she does not breed just for the sake of it, and in my view, only has a relatively small number of foals each year, and like she says, she knows where the foals go, and I am sure she and her family take immense pleasure in watching those foals develop and go on to be successful in what they do.

Having a younger Dales and a Fell mare, both of good breeding, I fully intended to breed from both last year, but due to the farm problems this was put on hold, and we are still on hold.  But, I feel it is important to carry on breeding - especially with the Dales I have.  I will not be flooding the market with unwanted foals though - I would probably keep them....unless it was an exceptionally good home