[robert waddell]

i agree with everything that HH has said and at the end of there life        if you have a 100 kilo carcass the cost per kilo to buy a £5 special or a £65 pedigree weaner is either 5p or 65p  per kilo the biggest difference with your £5 special  YOU KNOW YOU HAVE SCREWED THAT BREEDER AND YOU ARE DANCING OF INTO THE SUNSET LIKE MORECOMBE AND WISE

[southwestpoultry]

Can I tell you why I started breeding pedigree pigs ?
I'd raised a few batches of weaners for the freezer - some bought from local breeders then, when I was a bit braver and knew what to look for, from our local mart. (I think the cheapest I bought were £35 each)
But as I learned more about pigs and became involved with TAS, the RBST and other breed clubs/organisations I realised how at risk many of the traditional breeds are - being a typical "I want to save the world !" type wummin, I made the decision to breed from pedigree stock. My reasoning for this is (to me) quite simple - non-pedigree pigs don't count towards breed numbers held by the BPA, so unless I'm breeding pedigree I'm doing nothing to help preserve these breeds. Pigs cost the same to keep and process whether they're ped. or not, a small difference in cost at the start should make very little difference in the overall cost per kilo. Plus, by having a pedigree weaner, you can sell it as Tamworth/GOS etc etc etc without breaking any rules relating to marketing  My costs to produce piglets would be the same whether I bred pedigree or not  They still eat the same, need the same land and housing, medical treatment etc etc etc The only difference is in the extra money for BPA and BKKPS membership, but that works out at less than £2.50 a piglet. So for people to be happiliy selling piglets at £25 a time I would question whether all the things are in place to ensure that the pigs are healthy and well cared for - because I certainly couldn't afford to sell them for that  2 litters at £25 a piglet barely covers the cost of the sow's feed for a year - how on earth would the breeder be paying for worming, vaccinating, bedding etc etc etc

I have read this post with great intrested ! and yip you guessed it im a penny pincher as well and would love to know where you can get these cheap pigs !!!! the cheapest i can get within a reasonable drive from me ( 50 miles) is £50 so if anyone anywhere near kilmarnock has 2 piglets cheap please let me knw because a saving of £25 a pig is a huge amount !!

Cheap pigs ? or GOOD pigs ?
As they say Dundonald, you pays your money, you takes your chance  I've heard of a lot of people buying 2 or 3 'cheap' pigs only to find they are sickly animals who end up either taking months extra to finish or who end up being destroyed. Where's the saving there ? If you're not prepared to find an extra £25 to buy a quality weaner would you be the kind of person who's prepared to pay £25 to the vet to treat an ill animal ? Please think about the 'big' picture 

Here Here Happy Hippy,

You have echoed Sarah and my thoughts exactly, being brand new pig breeders (Hopefully) we thought that getting pedigree rare breed weaners was important for the preservation of the breed, we chose Oxford Sandy and Blacks after many months of reading and studying into the best breeds for a new breeder, it was important to us to establish a solid relationship with their breeder so we could rely on them for advice in the future, also the breeder then knows that their animals are to be well looked after and cared for.

Around the South West £50 - £60 is the average cost of a good quality rare breed weaner and we would be a little wary paying much less than that for the reasons you have mentioned with regards to healthy animals.

I have already recommended our breeder to others thinking about getting into pigs as her experience and care is so important which we feel is so important for the longevity of them as pig owners and possibly breeders.

Robert & Sarah.

[Dundonald hens]

I'm appalled by the last post. If saving £50 is a "huge amount", can you afford to have pigs in the first place? What if you need to pay a vet, will you be a penny pincher then, too??

Breeders need to cover their costs, too, even if they're hobbyists. I'm not advocating paying over the odds, but the whole system has to be sustainable, which means there's a minimum cost involved - and that's not 5 or 8 quid a weaner, or even £25!
  

Eve dont make me laugh I have enough money to do as i like when i like but a saving of £50 on 2 pigs that are only going to the freezer is a lot of money in anyones book

[gavo]

I have been reading this thread but not posted until now Dundonald,£50 in the overall cost of raising pigs to slaughter is NOWT as they say over here. The phrase buyer beware springs to mind buy cheap buy twice this is true of most things livestock included. Good quality healthy livestock from reputable breeders comes at a price a fair one; pay for shite get shite .I know most people love a bargain but it is only a bargain if it it doesn't end up costing you far more than you ever expected in vet bills etc (as poor stock often does). If we don't buy good animals and keep pedigree breeders going we wont have the great variety of pigs with flavour etc (to just go in the freezer) 

To be honest if people keep driving down the prices of pigs, rare or commercial we wont have anyone breeding any as there'll be no profit in it,attitudes like the one you stated are what are killing the pig industry .

[TheCaptain]

I have been reading this thread but not posted until now Dundonald,£50 in the overall cost of raising pigs to slaughter is NOWT as they say over here. The phrase buyer beware springs to mind buy cheap buy twice this is true of most things livestock included. Good quality healthy livestock from reputable breeders comes at a price a fair one; pay for shite get shite .I know most people love a bargain but it is only a bargain if it it doesn't end up costing you far more than you ever expected in vet bills etc (as poor stock often does). If we don't buy good animals and keep pedigree breeders going we wont have the great variety of pigs with flavour etc (to just go in the freezer) 

To be honest if people keep driving down the prices of pigs, rare or commercial we wont have anyone breeding any as there'll be no profit in it,attitudes like the one you stated are what are killing the pig industry .

Well said!!!

[sabrina]

I do not Breed pigs but buy from people who do. I like to check out that the people I do buy from give their animals the best care they can as I consider this important. I also am more than willing to pay a decent price as rearing in animal is not cheap if the job is done right. Its not in my best interest to put these breeders out of business because at the end of the day if only a few are left breeding the price will be even higher. 

[SallyintNorth]

I like to check out that the people I do buy from give their animals the best care they can as I consider this important. I also am more than willing to pay a decent price as rearing in animal is not cheap if the job is done right. Its not in my best interest to put these breeders out of business because at the end of the day if only a few are left breeding the price will be even higher. 

Hear hear.  :applause: (Can we have an applause emoticon please Dan?)

[Eve]

Dundonald, if you have enough money then your attitude is even more of a disgrace.

[Hatty]

I've been reading this thread with interest over the last few weeks. We have been looking for weaners and because of the cost £75 - £95 we have been quoted for pedigree GOS, we have decided to wait a little while NOT that we think this is unfair simply that it is more than we expected and we need to save a little more first.

Everyone loves a bargain, but I think not understanding plays a part in things too especially for newbies like us, for example I had been looking for some goats in our local area that we could milk AN or GG I was introduced to a local fella who had GG x Pygmy's they are beautiful little things and I could of had the whole herd for £50 each 3 castrate kids (for the freezer) 5 nanny kids, & 2 nannies  I make that £500, but after getting good advice and speaking to other goat keepers I found that they were not such a bargain after all, although they were well looked after they had not been CAE tested (meaning I would have problems getting them mated) and he had lost a couple of nannies suddenly soon after kidding. I explained to the man that I didn't want to buy unless he would test them (which I offered to pay towards) he refused so I backed out.

Now I have bought 2 nannies from Wytsend for approximately the same plus the cost of transport from Devon to Yorkshire and I think its a bargain because I have peace of mind that they are healthy and not likely to get to 5 or 6 and just drop dead.

I'll wait for my weaners till I can afford to buy quality & peace of mind

[Greenerlife]

We went to the south of England show today, and heard a story that shocked us of a market that sold a whole litter of 9 weaners for £20!!!  What is it with that kind of price?  So sad.

[SallyintNorth]

We went to the south of England show today, and heard a story that shocked us of a market that sold a whole litter of 9 weaners for £20!!!  What is it with that kind of price?  So sad.

It's not possible that someone had misunderstood how the auction mart worked, and each weaner was £20?  Pens are usually sold at a price per head, it would be easy for an onlooker to think the whole pen was sold for that amount.  (I want to believe this was the case...)

I still get very confused at ewe-and-lamb sales; some marts sell at a 'price per life', so a ewe-and-single is twice the bid price, a ewe-and-twins three times, whereas other marts sell at a 'price per outfit' so that you pay what you are bidding for the ewe and her lambs come with her.  This is usually not explained... I bet some buyers get caught out somewhere every year.  And if there's 10 ewes with 20 lambs, that can make one heck of a difference!

[Padge]

I too have been watching this whole debate since its inception.

For me probably the most poignant post was that made by sabrina   regarding the welfare of the animals she looks to buy for herself.
We too apply that ethic to ourselves. After all the majority of us are choosing to do this because we want a better quality end product that has been cared for properly for the duration of its life.The words 'you reap what you sow'  spring to mind however idealistic that may seem.It is possible that many of us boarded this train through a desire for a liitle bit of idealism in this life.Much of what we do at whatever level is 'living the dream' as it were.

However we also have to be aware that there are also people out there that would charge top dollar for something simply because they can.I personally think that £95 for an osb weaner far too much and reading pretty much about costs involved of getting to weaner age a little top heavy(whilst ducking for cover i would also point out that we have bought and paid good money for our weaners and are well aware of the costs involved)

A certain comment on having enough money to 'do whatever i want'  i have to confess i read with a little disdain and would draw your attention to another members signature it goes somethong like  'beware the money men for they know the price of everything and the value of nothing'

[gavo]

Padge

Whilst you feel that £95 is too much for an OSB weaner, do you really know the cost incurred by the breeder? Where we live any  new breeding stock(new blood lines unrelated to what's here) needs to be imported from mainland Britain thus incurring considerable costs which can only be partially recovered by selling the off spring. Many breeders go to considerable lengths and costs to buy the best stock they possibly can to breed from.So sometimes the higher price is warranted and is not just because they can.

[ballingall]

I can see where Dundonald is coming from- times are tough and most people do look for the best deal available. However, for most people, that's getting the special offer in the supermarket (or whatever equlivent you want to think of). No-one wants to pay over the odds for what they are purchasing.

However, I breed pedigree animals myself, and I know it costs to produce those animals, and I think a fair price should be paid for healthy good stock. From some posts though, when breeders are mentioning costs- what costs are you adding in? Why would you be trying to recoup the cost of feeding your sow all year? Are you saying that, but for producing the piglets to sell, you wouldn't have that pig, and therefore wouldn't have the cost of feeding it?

Because that seems excessive to me. I would want to have my animals anyway, whether or not I bred them. So their costs, I count as my fee for the pleasure I get from them. The cost of the offspring is only the fee's relating to producing them- so for example their vaccinations, a stud fee for example, the additional food needed for the mother in the pregnancy and when feeding the offspring until they can be sold, the cost of eartags, or notching, registration fee's etc.

I do think £95 for a meat weaner is too much. But- for a pedigree registered animal which may be showworthy or the possibility of breeding from them- then yes, I think that is a reasonable price.

Beth

[gavo]

Padge didn't state which this weaner was . The cost i was refering to were only those related to importing stock which adds several hundred pounds to the cost of the breeding aninimal, not the day to day upkeep of said animal, which anyone incurs whether they breed or not.

Living in N.I if people want unrelated stock they either have to import it themselves or buy stock from someone who has done (as in many breeds bloodlines are limited over here) but if people are not worried about in breeding or are only looking for fatteners they can easily find alternative stock at a price they are prepared to pay.It is afterall a question of choice.